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So I'm looking at the rules for jet bikes, more specifically eldar jetbikes. I says :all eldar jetbikes (including dark eldar ones) are allowed to move 6" in the assault phase, even if they don't assault. When eldar jetbikes move in the assault phase and do not assault, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as other jetbikes do in the movement phase.

So my question is can eldar jet bikes move 6" in th assault phase and then assault 12" because they are on jetbikes? because the wording in that section of the rules implies that you can move 6" and then assault.

Punisher91090 wrote:So I'm looking at the rules for jet bikes, more specifically eldar jetbikes. I says :all eldar jetbikes (including dark eldar ones) are allowed to move 6" in the assault phase, even if they don't assault. When eldar jetbikes move in the assault phase and do not assault, they treat difficult terrain in the same way as other jetbikes do in the movement phase.

So my question is can eldar jet bikes move 6" in th assault phase and then assault 12" because they are on jetbikes? because the wording in that section of the rules implies that you can move 6" and then assault.

No. They can move 6" in the assault phase, that's it. That movement can either be to charge and get in an assault, or to move in any other direction they want.

(PS They can only assault 6", not 12")

Er... um... wow never caught that before. Um unless I'm missing something then even though the wording is a little murky RAW it looks legal to move 6" then assault. Though you'll prob get called out on it.

I think what the writers meant was that you can move 6 inches even if that move doesnt get you into assault. However given the current wording you can probably successfully argue it even in tournament areas.

EDIT: given the exact wording of Assault, it seems to only imply the actual contact and combat of the models. So you wouldnt be able to argue making another move, since you just made your "assault move" but didnt actually assault anything, which is probably what the line "...When eldar jetbikes move in the assault phase and do not assault..." was meant to imply.

Also, the word "Assault" now looks alien to me because I saw it too much.

Is it not the same as tau battlesuits,i.e. movement/shooting and then duck back in an assault move 6" into some cover or into an assault if close enough ?

Well the problem comes into play that the term "assault" is not clearly defined. Via the Eldar jetbike rule it specifically states ".. are allowed to move 6" in the assault phase, even if they do not assault". Most people equate this to may "may move in the assault phase if they do not assault" which is the Tau suit rule if memory serves.

Base on that wording we are then asked what is "assault" because as per the basic gist of the assault phase it is declare an assault and see if you are within 6". Since this move from the jetbike is not defined as your "assault move" then yes, it could be heavily argued that you can move 6" then assault 6".

I would not recommend this though, since the first time you try to assault 12" with a seercoucil you are really gonna piss someone the hell off.

Let's simplify this...is the bike fleet? Can bikes normally "run"? I believe the answer to both is, no. So, with no fleet it can't assault after a "run" move. This rule in question is seemingly a method to allow the bikes to gain a "run" equivalent which is used in lieu of assaulting. Unless it is fleet.

*edit*
In short, it says you can move 6" even if you don't assault but nowhere does it says you CAN assault after taking this move.

Kevin949 wrote:Let's simplify this...is the bike fleet? Can bikes normally "run"? I believe the answer to both is, no. So, with no fleet it can't assault after a "run" move. This rule in question is seemingly a method to allow the bikes to gain a "run" equivalent which is used in lieu of assaulting. Unless it is fleet.

*edit*
In short, it says you can move 6" even if you don't assault but nowhere does it says you CAN assault after taking this move.

The conclusion seems right but the path there is flawed. This is not a "run" move as it doesn't happen instead of shooting. This is a move (just like the Tau Jet Pack Jump Infantry) which happens after shooting during the assault phase. And I have always read it that the move is in place of an assault (or is an assault if you contact enemy units...shich would just be a normal assault I guess so I'll just shut up on that tack).

Ah yes, I forgot running happened in the shooting phase. But like you said, the statement is still same at the core.

Either way you spin it, the bike can either assault in the assault phase or move in the assault phase. I don't know of (m)any units that can do more than 1 action per phase.

that's the main idea of it. But the wording is...less than perfect. So it's actually perfectly legal to argue that you can move and assault, just that most people would think you're a dick for doing so.

exactly thats why I was confused because it doesn't say you can cannot move and assult during your assault phase thus resulting in a 12" assault move.

Punisher91090 wrote:exactly thats why I was confused because it doesn't say you can cannot move and assult during your assault phase thus resulting in a 12" assault move.

Permissive rules system. It doesn't say you "can" so you can't, not the other way around.

It doesn't say you "cant" and the wording implies that you can.

Punisher91090 wrote:It doesn't say you "cant" and the wording implies that you can.

That's now how a permissive rules system works and implications are not permissions.

Kevin949 wrote: It doesn't say you "can" so you can't, not the other way around.

Sure it does. It gives Bikes the ability to make assault moves. It also gives Eldar Jetbikes a separate 6" move in the assault phase that is specifically not an assault move.

Not that I'm advocating this be how it's interpreted, but the book says they can do both.

which book and where?

Kevin949 wrote:

Punisher91090 wrote:It doesn't say you "cant" and the wording implies that you can.

That's now how a permissive rules system works and implications are not permissions.

Correct, this is a permissive rule set.

You have permission to move in the assault phase do to the Eldar Jetbike rule.
You have permission to make a 6" move for your "assault" move.

The permission is there by pure RAW to make the 12" move into assault as there is nothing that states that the moves are the same nor that you are unable to do both.

Interesting...

I think we can all agree the intention is to make a 6" move in any direction or to make a 6" assault move. (And, this is definitely how I would play it in game)

I've always read it that way, but I'm starting to think that I may have been wrong...

Although, are we sure this move is even possible? In the assault phase, you're just given permission to declare a charge, measure distance, and if within your charge distance, move things into BtB. Do the rules for the assault phase actually have a provision for movement that isn't a charge? Or, are we given permission to do something without rules on how to do it?

It's a very gray area because the assault rules refer to an "assault move", but the jetbike move isn't classified as your assault move nor does it make and referance to a conjunction or mutual exclusion of the two.

In simple terms, it's possibly legal, but I would HIGHLY suggest not attempting it in a tourney as it'll prob cause some drama.

Attempting to move more than 6" in a phase when permission is only granted to move 6", isn't a gray area, it's exceeding the permission granted by the rules.

You seem to be missing what everyone is saying here solkan. The eldar jetbike rule says that during the assault phase you can move 6" even IF THEY DON'T ASSAULT meaning that the 6" move doesn't have to put them into assault, which is why this is a gray area and not so clean cut and exact like you seem to think it is. The rules give you specific permission to move 6" during the assault phase and they give you permission to not assault using this move.

Punisher91090 wrote:You seem to be missing what everyone is saying here solkan. The eldar jetbike rule says that during the assault phase you can move 6" even IF THEY DON'T ASSAULT meaning that the 6" move doesn't have to put them into assault, which is why this is a gray area and not so clean cut and exact like you seem to think it is. The rules give you specific permission to move 6" during the assault phase and they give you permission to not assault using this move.

You have permission to move 6" only to make an assault. The Eldar rule gives you permission to make a 6" move even if not making an assault. Unless the actual wording is very precise in it's allowance I don't see how it could be misinterpreted.

it all depends on how you take on the meaning of "assault" Does "Assault" mean move 6 inches, get into contact with an enemy, and beat the ever loving crap out of them, or does it simply mean actually being in combat?

However we all know that the spirit of the rule is that you can simply move 6 inches in the Assault phase without actually needing to get into a melee combat.

What Solkan wrote, you are given permission to move 6" in the assault phase. There is no use of the word "addition" or similar anywhere. The only possible grey area is whether you're allowed to move 4" and then assault 2". It's not even specified it's a "normal move", only that the move treats terrain in the same way as a normal move.

Trick question: if you move 6" and assaulted 6", will you have moved up to 6" in the assault phase or have you moved further?

Actually you are misquoting the assault passage actually says "The maximum distance most units can move during an assault is 6""

That could be interpreted that since jetbikes have an allowance to use the 6" even if they don't assault that the assault could be stacked on top. By the sentence above you could infer that not only is a jetbike one of the exception units, but also that "an assault" includes a movement of 6" which can be done after your jetbike move.