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Monoliths have this particle whip, right? And it's a special rule that they can either fire it once a turn or open a portal, this is all called Power Matrix. Now heres the thing, would you be able to move the monolith, shoot the Fluxes and then use the matrix special rule

There is nothing that says the Monolith has to forgo shooting in order to use the Matrix.

Although the Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon, so you'll only be able to use the teleport 'mode' of the Matrix if you are intending to also fire the Flux Arc.

Yes this is correct - using the monolith's "teleport" function doesnt count as using a weapon. This only occurs if you fire the Particle Whip.

In honesty, i'm finding that the teleport function is very effective as opposed to the particle whip. Increases squad survivabilty drastically.

One thing, do you need to use the monolith portal in the movement phase? I'd assume so since it can assist with WBB?

insaniak wrote:There is nothing that says the Monolith has to forgo shooting in order to use the Matrix.

Although the Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon, so you'll only be able to use the teleport 'mode' of the Matrix if you are intending to also fire the Flux Arc.

This is misleading, you do not HAVE To fire the flux arc guns if you're going to teleport. You simply cannot fire the whip if you teleport a unit.


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liam0404 wrote:Yes this is correct - using the monolith's "teleport" function doesnt count as using a weapon. This only occurs if you fire the Particle Whip.

In honesty, i'm finding that the teleport function is very effective as opposed to the particle whip. Increases squad survivabilty drastically.

One thing, do you need to use the monolith portal in the movement phase? I'd assume so since it can assist with WBB?

I believe the rule states that the portal function is used in the moving phase, but to answer you simply...Yes, you have to use it in the movement phase.

It makes the most sense if you're using it to re-roll WBB (which technically is before the Movement phase, but let's not open that can of worms....)

Re-rolling WBB doesn't happen before the movement phase it simply states that if you plan to use the matrix to port the guys through to leave them on the board and re-roll their WBB "when" you port them through. It could happen at the end of your movement phase for all it matters.

Only the initial WBB roll happens "at the start of the necron players turn".

Ah i'm with you. So if i wanted to re-roll a squads WBB, I declare this before making ANY rolls, and then bear this in mind for when I come to that unit?

You can declare it after making your initial WBB rolls but typically I declare it before making any movements with other units.

Got it. I'm enjoying getting to know the necrons, im 3-0 so far against BA, Orks and Eldar. Immortals seem to be one of the best units for them, and my warrior spam list is more effective than I thought it would be.

Kevin949 wrote:

insaniak wrote:There is nothing that says the Monolith has to forgo shooting in order to use the Matrix.

Although the Particle Whip is an Ordnance weapon, so you'll only be able to use the teleport 'mode' of the Matrix if you are intending to also fire the Flux Arc.

This is misleading, you do not HAVE To fire the flux arc guns if you're going to teleport. You simply cannot fire the whip if you teleport a unit.

I can see how you could read it backwards... So yes, I wasn't saying that you have to fire the flux arc in order to teleport. I was saying that if you fire the flux arc, you can only choose to teleport with the matrix, not fire the particle whip.

ah but it uses only the ordanance rules for firing, not for excluding the use of any other weapons

Phase wrote:ah but it uses only the ordanance rules for firing, not for excluding the use of any other weapons

No. The codex very clearly states that "the particle whip is an Ordnance weapon", and the rules for firing an Ordnance weapon state you may not fire any other weapons, so even if it only "used them for firing" you'd still be disallowed the use of other weapons.

It's mentioned in the FAQs that you cannot fire the Particle Whip and Flux Arc in the same turn. The Flux Arc is there so you can still use the monolith in the shooting phase after teleporting units.

The codex says that the monolith can fire and shoot all of its weapons. However the FAQ overrides that and it says that you can only shoot the particle whip or the guass flux arc. But if you use the power matrix to move troops, that's not a shooting attack, so you could still use the Guass Flux Arc.

Soulx wrote:The codex says that the monolith can fire and shoot all of its weapons.

Where?

Soulx wrote:The codex says that the monolith can fire and shoot all of its weapons. However the FAQ overrides that and it says that you can only shoot the particle whip or the guass flux arc. But if you use the power matrix to move troops, that's not a shooting attack, so you could still use the Guass Flux Arc.

I've got both copies of the current Necron codex (original and stealth reprint), and I can't find this.

Reading is Tech. I suggest it before posting.

I only have the first codex, and no mention of any such rule.

Gwar! wrote:

Reading is Tech. I suggest it before posting.

Indeed. Reading the Codex would clearly reveal that the monloith may move and use the power matrix, not move and fire any weapons.

But this has been done to death already.

time wizard wrote:
Indeed. Reading the Codex would clearly reveal that the monloith may move and use the power matrix, not move and fire any weapons.

But this has been done to death already.

Yep, but (as if really needed) further support that the ability to use the matrix does not necessarily mean the ability to fire the whip.

Gwar! wrote:I only have the first codex, and no mention of any such rule.

There's another codex? I thought there was the White Dwarf stuff for the first edition of Necrons and then the Codex that was written under the 3rd Edition rules?

Another question I want to answer before someone needs to open a new thread on it:

Q: Can I use the Particle Whip on the same turn that I deep strike a Monolith into play?
A: No. I'm pretty sure there is a rule that you cannot fire an Ordinance weapon on the same turn as deep striking.

Better question:

Q: Can I Roll WBBs, and then leave Necrons on the table because I have a Monolith that may enter play this turn from Reserve and then deep strike the Monolith within 18" of the Necron Unit and use the teleportation ability thus getting to re-roll WBBs?
A: I'm not sure. Maybe someone else can clarify this one.

Alamoth wrote:There's another codex?

There was a stealth re-print of the Necron codex that changes the wording of some rules.

Monoliths for example.

kirsanth wrote:
There was a stealth re-print of the Necron codex that changes the wording of some rules.

Monoliths for example.

That's awkward ... how do I know which version I have? I bought mine a few years ago, but I beat mine up a lot so this is my third copy of the Necron Codex.

Alamoth wrote:

kirsanth wrote:
There was a stealth re-print of the Necron codex that changes the wording of some rules.

Monoliths for example.

That's awkward ... how do I know which version I have? I bought mine a few years ago, but I beat mine up a lot so this is my third copy of the Necron Codex.

If it's the 2nd printing, it should say 2nd printing in the Copyright/Contents Page iirc.

I believe the Monolith rules for the older version state that it counts as stationary for models being pulled through the matrix, for example.

There are a number of other changes too, but they are changes in wording and such, rather than section changes and whatnot.


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Gwar! wrote:If it's the 2nd printing, it should say 2nd printing in the Copyright/Contents Page iirc.

That would be nice. I am not sure I have ever seen one actually, or I would have written that too.

Alamoth wrote: There's another codex? I thought there was the White Dwarf stuff for the first edition of Necrons and then the Codex that was written under the 3rd Edition rules?

My codex says 'Second Printing'. As Gwar said it's on the first page near the bottom.

Alamoth wrote:Another question I want to answer before someone needs to open a new thread on it:

Q: Can I use the Particle Whip on the same turn that I deep strike a Monolith into play?
A: No. I'm pretty sure there is a rule that you cannot fire an Ordinance weapon on the same turn as deep striking.

The rule actually is that vehicles that are not fast or walkers may not move at cruising speed and fire weapons, and deep striking vehicles count as moving at cruising speed.
That is the reason why a deep striking monolith (and any other deep striking non fast or non walker vehicle) may not fire any weapons. It can however, still use it's power matrix to teleport necrons.

Alamoth wrote: Better question:

Q: Can I Roll WBBs, and then leave Necrons on the table because I have a Monolith that may enter play this turn from Reserve and then deep strike the Monolith within 18" of the Necron Unit and use the teleportation ability thus getting to re-roll WBBs?
A: I'm not sure. Maybe someone else can clarify this one.

Yes because the rules on page 21 of the Necron Codex state that if you intend to teleport a necron unit through the portal in the movement phase to grant another WBB roll, leave the models that failed their initial roll on their sides until the end of the Movement phase. So the order of operations would be;

Unit of Necrons makes WBB roll. Some fail the WBB.
You intend to attempt to teleport them through the monolith portal for another roll, so any that failed stay on their sides.
You roll for reserves, if the monolith arrives you place it on the table (after all reserve rolls have been made.)
You roll for scatter.
If the unit is still "... at least partially within 18" of the Monolith..." then you can teleport them through the portal and attempt another WBB roll for the models that failed the first attempt.
Continue to move any or all other units.

This talk of deep strike close to a downed necron unit raises a question,
If I deep strike the lith by my down warriors and scatter onto the downed ones, I can't move them, because they are not legally units in play, so are they destroyed(as they are models that can't move), or does the lith mishap(as iirc they are treated as terrain)?

Hallowed_Da'Credo wrote:If I deep strike the lith by my down warriors and scatter onto the downed ones, I can't move them, because they are not legally units in play, so are they destroyed(as they are models that can't move), or does the lith mishap(as iirc they are treated as terrain)?

Debris. They are treated as debris, not terrain, per se.

Basically, ignore them, they are not part of a unit while down.

If they get back up they are moved into a unit.