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How do the "soulless" and "Psychic Abomination" rules work on models embarked on transports?

DakkaDakka wrote:

Che-Vito wrote:
RAP, you know how it works. Measure it from the hull. (similar to measuring the range of a CCS/PCS command bubble, measuring the distance that an Auspex affects, or mystics are able to affect Deep Striking units.)

So what happens when the psyker fails his morale check from within a transport.

If I knew how it worked (or how the opinion of fellow YMDCer's viewed it) I wouldn't post it here... and even if I did have my own idea on how it worked, I would post that idea to allow it to be up for debate.... if not, you're basically invalidating the entire purpose of these forums.

Before the Doom of Malantai I would have said that it had no effect on embarked units.

Nowadays I really don't know.

DakkaDakka wrote:

You need to make a house rule.

Same situation happens when a Plasmagun explodes inside a chimea!

Would a vehicle also have its leadership reduced to 7 (say for example, that vehicle were a Furioso Librarian)?

Daemon-Archon Ren wrote:Would a vehicle also have its leadership reduced to 7 (say for example, that vehicle were a Furioso Librarian)?

In general, no. The Psi Libby is a special case and it may or may not affect him.

Yay for clear rules!

I mean, I honestly wish my questions were more on clear rules (like "What does 'D6' mean?") but the reason I only really have questions on the really "questionable" rules is because I have actually read the rule book! (Which I know... makes me quite the rarity in YMDC )

Btw, all the above questions for Psychic Abom can also be applied to a necron lord with nightmare shroud!

I know this caused a heated debate before in regards to a certain Blood Angels chalice AOE, but I would say no.

First off, I do use the GW FAQ's, so that's where I'm coming from. In both cases I can find of units inside of a transport being effected by outside rules are concerned, you cannot. The Doom of Malantai' does not effect embarked units with his AOE. Also, Eldar units cannot use psychic powers on embarked units (unless the psyker is doing it to the embarked unit he is joined with) friend or foe. Finally, while people will point to the rulebook where you measure to the hull of the vehicle when determining the range of embarked "involved" units, there is nothing that specifically allows you to effect units in a transport and no rules for it. The crux of their argument is twisting the word "involve" to suit what they want.

The bottom line is, if it doesn't explicitly say you can, then you can't. Like it or not, there are no actual rules that allow outside sources to target or AOE embarked units. Either way it is a "house rule" as I am going off the GW FAQ's and the other side would be making up their own rules.

Cue the incoming logical fallacies, poorly though out straw man agreements, and cries that "GW FAQ's are unofficial and a random internet guy or tourney organizer knows better."

Gwar! wrote:You need to make a house rule.

Same situation happens when a Plasmagun explodes inside a chimea!

but this rule is pretty clear as it says the firing modelo takes an armor save. i would have thought you would have deciphered this?



more on topic.



the way the rules seem to work for me is this.

Soulless can work from within a vehicle, but not from without. if for some reason you could get a soulless model inside a vehicle it would project the souless bubble from the vehicles hull, but when the model is outside the vehicle the souless bubble doesn't extend into the vehicle(so a SM libby would cast powers unaffected)

that is how i play with them

For some reason I thought that the DoM did affect units in a transport. Maybe I was thinking of the INAT.

In light of this development, I concur with JGrand. Soulless Abomination doesn't affect units embarked on transports.

Grey Templar wrote:
the way the rules seem to work for me is this.

Soulless can work from within a vehicle, but not from without. if for some reason you could get a soulless model inside a vehicle it would project the souless bubble from the vehicles hull, but when the model is outside the vehicle the souless bubble doesn't extend into the vehicle(so a SM libby would cast powers unaffected)

that is how i play with them

I don't know what other models have the soulless and psychic abomination rules but since necrons have no embarkable transports, working from within a vehicle is a moot point. But the rule does state that all enemy units within X inches are leadership 7. So, if units embarked in vehicle are within X inches why would they not be affected? It's not a targeted power or a casting power or anything of that sort and I don't specifically see why an embarked unit wouldn't count as being X inches away.

Well, DH and WH Callidus assassins have the souless and psychic abomination rules and their army does have transports.

Grey Templar wrote:Well, DH and WH Callidus assassins have the souless and psychic abomination rules and their army does have transports.

I'm about 99% sure that they aren't allowed to embark on those transports though.

nothing is preventing them in the DH codex.

it's unlikly that anyone ever would as the assassin with that rule isn't deployed normally and you really never would put it in the transport in the first place.

Grey Templar wrote:Well, DH and WH Callidus assassins have the souless and psychic abomination rules and their army does have transports.

Thanks for the info.

But with that said, is the rule the same for them as it is for necrons where it says "any enemy units within X inches..." or are they different for those two units where they're actual powers that you have to call out to use?

the rules are identical.