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So I play Space Marines, but a friend of mine plays Tau, and he is just getting stomped. By me. But it's gotten to the point where it's not really that fun for me to keep destroying him like this, so I thought I would appeal to the Dakka boards for a little advice. His list generally runs something like

Commander Farsight w/ bodyguards (plasma and missile), a Pirahna skimmer, a pathfinder devilfish w/3 rail rifles, 3 marker lights, a fish w/ fire warriors, another squad of fire warriors, a Railhead, and a 'suicide suit', a one man melta suit squad, specifically for deepstriking, melta-ing a vehicle, and dying, and two broadsides. Today he accidentally brought an illegal HQ, I think shadowsun or something, by herself, and she can't be run with Farsight, but we didn't realize it til partway through the game, and he has previously not brought her in favor of a few more suits.

My list generally runs like

melee HQ, 2 Tac squads, 2 Assault Squads, Scout squad, Scout bikers (they are new, I use them for the lulz), a Rifleman dread, and a 5 man Termie squad w/ Cyclone ML.

We play at 1500 points. Today I tried doin something I'm unfamiliar with, which is use Special Characters, so I used Kayvaan Shrike, which allowed me to infiltrate a squad of Assault Troops who were also fleet. Needless to say, the combined assault of them plus the infiltrated scouts on the other side of his army really wrecked his stuff, starting first turn, and wrapping up towards a 3-0 objective win. My question to you is: How the heck does the Tau counter a Shrike list? Is there a way to do it? If there is simply not a way to do it, I guess I'll make a different list, cuz this just isn't fun. Even when I don't bring Shrike, I still have 20 assault troops that are up in his face turn 2, 3 at the latest, and if he ever whittles them down, by that time the Tac squads and Termies are in range. For his sake, Dakka, How does the Tau beat my list?

Unfortunately, missile pods which are quite effective against most armies, have only about 1/5 of their normal use vs. your army, as they are typically used vs. transports (of which you have none listed, though you mention *one*), and are only ap4, thus being negated 2/3 of the time practically. If he were to make a list more suited to fighting SM's, he could get TL plasma rifle, plasma/fusion, or another combo that punches through your high armor saves. What I'd recommend is that he get magnets to switch out the weapons.

Second, he should (in my opinion) get some kroot to tie up your assaulters. They do, in what minimal experience I have had, wonders at delaying assaulting units, and are fairly cheap pointwise (not in regards to money though, a troop of 20 kroot, and 10 hounds costs about $120, for only 200 points worth of units, but they do decent in CC, if they charge, that us 30 i5 attacks, and 60 i3, all at s4. Though you could also do 40 bs3 s4 shots instead of charging, which, against MEq, would be 3.333 wounds, though mathematically speaking, charging is the better option, as they don't let you get as many attacks in, and allows for more wounds overall, since 90 attacks would average to about 7.5 wounds, almost wiping out any single squad they attack). You have a decent number of fast moving units, and he will be struggling to maintain distance. A recommendation would be to have him jumping over cover and the like, so that even if you get in assault range one turn, you may have to take a difficult terrain test to get to him. Also make sure you always remind him to use his assault move to get away from you. He should be using the RF of plasma rifles, and potentially fusion blasters against your tac squads and termies before jumping away, but should otherwise keep his distance, namely, far, far away. If he focuses PR/FB suits on your termies and tacs, he can use the railhead and broadsides to nail your assault squads from across the map (if he plans to template a squad, he should always do so before any other shots against the same squad, that way if he gets a lot of wounds, he can potentially force the single-shots to kill an important unit).

Third, I have heard poor things in regards to ALL tau special commander units. Farsight is, to my understanding, the best amongst them, but still no great shakes. He could swap him out for a shas'el, with PR, FB, TA, HW MT, and a shield drone, and he'd save 58 points (For an almost identical statline, but with less fear of ID), which could outfit another suicide suit (they, bare bones, cost about 53 points). He could theoretically swap farsight for shadowsun, and change the suicide suit to a normal suit (for use in a team, or even swap him over to a Shas'el) and use shadowsun as the suicide suit, which, being able to fire two separate meltas at potentially two targets, is slightly more effective, and forces targets attempting to attack her to take a night vision test, making her less susceptible to long-range kraks, lascannons, or similar such ID weps (Though I still don't recommend this course of action).

Fourth, if he keeps his same basic composition, toss the suicide unit a shield drone or two, and either stim injector (FNP) or iridium armor (2+ save) depending on the number of drones, with two drones, I'd say the 2+ save would be more useful. This makes the suicide suit a mini-juggernaut, and potentially require up to four times the fire power to take down. (A suit with iridium armor and 2 shield drones will live, on average, through having about 72 bolter shots fired at them, and while he could get both, ditching the drones, and survive the same number of bolter shots for less points, a lascannon will still ID him, as will a melta).

The pathfinders would be more useful as all markerlights most likely, as he can use those to eliminate any cover save your bikers get from turbo boosting, and blast away with plasma weps or even railguns. Maybe try to get 2 squads of 4 or 5 (and taking the 'fish away from the firewarriors to fund it, only to give it back to them on like... turn one).

The pirahna should probably have fusion blasters (against targets like space marines, they are twice as likely to wound, despite having 1/3 as many shots) and be run in squads so he can be funny with their damages, and he can also use them to blockade your vehicles, or interrupt your troops.

If you have a rhino or something near his hammerhead, and it is shaken, he can put it in flat out and ram the rhino/razorback/preferablysomethingwithAV10, and get a s10 hit, or, more likely, an s9 or s8.

This is all from my opinion of course, and I don't have a terribly large amount of experience to fall back on, I'm just going with a bit on what I've heard, and a bit of math, and a chunk of my own, occasionally poor, logic.

I would tell you buddy these things:

Farsight and Shadowsun are horrible. Do not touch them, they look shiny but they are TERRIBLE!!!

Okay, that asside...

Don't ever put rail-rifles on your pathfinders. Pathfinders are built for markerlights.

Secondly, I would tell him to get at least two units of three crisis battlesuits with Plasma Rifles, Fusion Blasters, and Multi-Trackers. I would also make his HQ have the same combo. For the rest of the game, I would suggest they stay together gibbing everything in close range.

Tell him to get rid of the suicide suit, it is a waste of points. Suicide is never a good tactic, and only works a third the time or less.

Here is a list I would use against marines:

Crisis Battlesuit Commander ('el)
-Plasma Rifle
-Fusion Blaster
-Multi Tracker

2 Crisis Battlesuit Teams (Each of 3 Battlesuits)
-Plasma Rifles
-Fusion Blasters
-Multi Trackers

2 Fire Warrior Teams (Each with 12 Fire Warriors)
-Shas'uis
-Bonding Knifes

2 Pathfinder Teams (Each with 4 pathfinders - and D-fish go to Fire warriors)

2 Devilfish
-SMS
-Targeting Arrays
-Multi-Trackers
-Disruption Pods

Hammerhead Gunship
-Railgun
-Burst Cannons
-Multi Tracker
-Target Lock
-Disruption Pods

2 Broadside Battlesuit Teams (1 man)
-Targeting Arrays

This comes to 1500 on the dot.

I hope this helps, ironically enough, I never have trouble with marines, and the marine player I with seems to be going through the same problem as your friend, just with marines.

Crisis suits with plasma rifles and shield drones. Shield Drone- Extra Wound Plasma Rifle- Dead Space Marines
I play SM and that is what kills the most. I teamed up with my Tau friend and had to tell a guy to put down armor save dice all game.

Can you provide his list? I have a sneaking suspicion that this list is suffering from major upgrade bloat. Tau definitely have the tools for Marines . . . BA may be more of a problem. Next game you play post a Betrep. That way Dakka can tell you exactly whats going on.

the best thing for T'au to do is to take 2 squads of 6 FWs in Warfish(Devilfish with missile pods and target lock) as your scoring units(keep the warriors inside, have them play cards/watch Sienfeld...)

then load up on suits. having 1 set of TL-weapons per suits and a drone controller with a shield drone. this will make them doubly survivable and give them good firepower. 2/3 if the suits should have plasma rifles and the rest should have a mix of Fusion blasters and missile pods.


if you really like farsight, a friend runs are pretty nasty Farsight bomb list. basically the same as above except he runs a 7 suit bodyguard unit for farsight. each suit has a Plasma rifle, 2 flamers(Tl-flamer), and 1 Shield drone.

the unit has 7 ablative wounds, has good ranged anti-meq and can lay down 7 tl-flamer templates once in close. then he Assaults Suits arn't as bad in CC as many seem to think. when you think about it, a unit that just took 7 flamer templates and a couple of plasma rifles to the face probably won't have much fight left in it.

the list has lost 1 game and we are still trying to beat it again.

Tau Crisis Suits generally fair best when equipped in Fireknife pattern (PR+MP+MT), at least in my experience (I usually fight Chaos or SW). Fire Warriors need to hide in devilfish transports to avoid being wiped out due to T3 and 4+ Armor. For a more competitive list, ditch Farsight and maybe the bodyguard in entirety. I personally haven't found pathfinders to be effective, especially with the mandatory devilfish. Skip them if possible. Also, the lone pirannha isn't doing anything for the list. My Tau have always done best when heavily-mechanized with crisis squads and maybe a broadside team in support. I usually use the following (roughly) at 1500 points:
1 Crisis Commander 'el w/ PR, CIB, TA, HWMT, HWDC, and 2 Shield Drones

2-3 Mechanized FW Squads
2 Squads of Fireknife Crisis Suits
1-2 Hammerheads
1 Squad of 2 Broadsides