Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Thinking about running an Eldar list for Mechanicon in West Chester PA. Let me know what you think.

Eldar 1850 Hybrid Force

HQ - 2 - 246 points

Farseer ( Singing Spear, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Fortune, Guide )

Farseer ( Singing Spear, Runes of Witnessing, Doom )

Elites - 2 - 620 points

10 Howling Banshees ( Exarch, Executioner )
Wave Serpent ( TL Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones )

5 Wraithguard ( Warlock, Singing Spear, Conceal )
Wave Serpent ( TL Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones )

Troops - 3 - 674 points

Spiritseer ( Singing Spear, Embolden )
12 Guardians ( Scatterlaser )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Shuriken Cannons, Spirit Stones )

Heavy Support - 2 - 310 points

Wraithlord ( Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher )

Wraithlord ( Brightlance, Eldar Missile Launcher )

Total - 1850 points

Farseer with fortune and guide with the Wraithguard. Farseer with doom with one of the Dire Avenger squads. My plan is basically Guardians and Wraithlords move up the field through cover and provide fire support. Wraithlords can help take down tanks/MC in melee if they survive. The 4 Waveserpents can work together with a huge flank attack wing, hopefully crippling the opponent/table. What does everyone think?

I think its horrible if you want to play it competitively.
Two Farseers is a waste. They are only supporting characters not more.
Small WG units are a waste of points. Fire Dragons can achieve the same for much less.

Ok, so my list is horrible for a competitive list? Please explain why. When I built the list I made sure I had all my bases covered. Maneuverability, check. Wraithlords/Wraithguard for anti tank/MC. Guardians/Avengers/Waveserpents for anti infantry/horde. Howling Banshees for elite infantry. 2 Farseers are huge support for the army, how are they a waste? Of course they are nothing but support, thats what Farseers do, they are one of the best HQ choices in any Eldar army, and provide Psychic defense. They make sure my avengers/banshees/guardians targets get doomed, and make the wraithguard squad an anvil unit that is very hard to take out, plus garuntees their shots hitting. As for taking Wraithguard over fire dragons, they cost me 41 points over a full fire dragon squad. Those 41 points will make sure I have a squad that can survive alot of fire before going down, instead of having a suicide Fire Dragon squad that dies after 1 turn of fire. Sure I could save some points and move my Farseer to the other Avenger serpent and just cast another doom, which is what I usually do, but I wanted the anvil unit in my list, something the Eldar usually lack.

I think what Wuest was saying is that 5 FDs can do what 5 WG can do... cheaper and better. I don't think anyone takes 10 Fire Dragons in squads competitively.

As for your list, Hybrid lists can be competitive, but this one is less than optimal because Wraithlords are your only real anti-tank. The good thing is, they are good at doing that and hard to kill. You have too much Shuriken Cannon in your army and not enough Scatter Lasers / EML or BL. This means you are slower than full mech, and you are 24 inch range except those two WLs. The howling banshees aren't typical as you said, but they can be effective in the world of FNP marines.

Good luck at Mechanicon. I got my ticket last week, hope to see you there!

Two farseers are a waste, I agree to this. Loose one, a couple guardians and if you want a second HQ, get an avatar. Or an autarch to join your banshees, but with a meltagun for those tanks

Wraithguard in a waveserpent can be fun to play, but they are terribly short ranged. Good luck with them, its brave to field them in a tournament. Just remember to get them where you want as fast as you can.

Your wraithlords are going to sit behind with the guardians and spirit seer? I don't think so. Wraithlords need to shoot, then get into combat, not stand close to guardians who will probably be guarding the home objective. I know they fit the theme of your army, but I would reccoment loosing them for other units. You could loose them for a unit FD in a waveserpent which would cover your anti-tank.

Either that or play around with your army formation so that the wraithlords aren't chained to the guardians.

Here is the problem... You are mobile, fast, can evade opponent, resistant... And then only anti-tank is slow and stuck in one place... It gets wasted and mech lists win... Same with guardians... If you go hybrid, you should do it other way... Take non mech units that can be hard to catch anyways... Like scorpions, warp spyders and so on... Not slow units...

As for wraithguard, they are very expensive... And not as good as fire dragons either... That's what everyone has been talking about...

Imo, you should get rid of wraithlords and add fire prisms or falcons... Also, you can add bl to serpents, it will allow you to shoot at tanks, even heavy ones... Serpent avengers are fine and nice combo...

2 farseers is too much... You can go with just 1 and be more than fine...

2 Farseers at 1850 points is perfectly viable, if OP makes some adjustments to his list.

Firstly, don't give them Singing Spears. Eldar tanks have no firepoints and if they're caught out in the open, they'll be hit hard by the shooting. Second, Runes of Witnessing on a Seer that casts just one spell a round and not that crucial spell(far less so than Fortune in a Seer Council, for instance) is a waste of 10 points. Thirdly, give your other Farseer Doom and Guide and put them into the Avenger squad. Believe me, you'd be suprised just how much mayhem a guided Bladestorm can do on a doomed squad.

Now on to the rest of the list...I tried(just for fun) a list similar to what you have in mind. Wraithlords babysitting Guardians on a point with Avatar as the ultimate counter-charge unit. It didn't work well at all. Take 6 Pathfinders instead to guard your home point.

Wraithlords are the weak link here(ironically). It looks like they would draw a lot of AT firepower away from your tanks, but every army will have better ways of dealing with them, be it 20 boyz charging in, tarpiting it for the entire game, Assault terminators destroying him, ML spam of the SW, etc, etc...they are simply big, lumbering targets for units that would otherwise have nothing to target. In a full Eldar mech list, tarpiting units are wasted, poisoned weapons even more so, you're fast enough that the assault terminators/nobz/genestealers/whathaveyou won't even bother trying to catch you, and so on...

Take a Falcon, two Fire Prisms, War walkers, Fire Dragons instead of Wraithguard or any combination thereof...and you'll do a lot better. And give your Avenger Serpents Brightlances. That is the only place in the army that they are worth nearly their points, imo. Shame not to take advantage of that.

Araenion has good advice, although I don't agree with every single point, the ideas behind them are solid. I like singing spears regardless, because I consider 3 points a wash on 1-2 characters for a 12" lascannon shot against vehicles that outflank, etc. I can see the reasons for not taking them, but I think the versatility is worth it.

I think he's right about runes of witnessing. Single power seers are best with RoWarding. If you're running 2 seers, whichever guy is more likely to be near the enemy's spearhead should have it.

The reason for not taking them is simply put that they don't tempt you to actually poke the Farseer's head outside of the Serpent. Cos it's gonna be blasted off. But fair enough, if you can supress the temptation, 3 points are barely worth mentioning, unless there's something else you could take for the cost.

Dropping a Farseer out is in almost every way like pushing forward your Queen in Chess. Do it at the right time, make it worth it, or don't do it at all.

Yes, quite so...the pro-Spear argument holds water, S9 shot at BS 5 is pretty damn nice, but it's used very rarely, so if you can put something in for those 3 points that will see more use, do it. Otherwise, why not?

Well apart from that terrible pistol the autarch can buy, the Singing spear is the cheapest Eldar weapon upgrade and I think that its definately worth it if your farseer doesn't plan on getting into an assault all alone. In most cases, he'll be close to the rest of the troops to use his pyschic powers. If one turn a suitable target is presented, then a singing spear can really save the day. On the other hand, that means no powers for that turn, so its a personal choice to make.

Imo, singing spears should only be used as extra upgrades as long as they don't compromise your battle plan

It doesn't mean no powers that turn. It's a shooting attack and Farseer's shooting psychic powers are Mind War and Eldritch storm, both of which are largely unused. Guide, Doom or Fortune are still up for grabs.

Araenion beat me to it. I hope you aren't 'not' using psychic abilities just because you threw a spear throw!

Thanks for all the advice guys. After thinking on all the points brought up in this thread, here is what I came up with :

Eldar 1850 Mechanized Force

HQ - 2 - 175 points

Farseer ( Runes of Warding, Doom )

Farseer ( Doom )

Elites - 3 - 404 points

10 Striking Scorpions ( Exarch, Scorpions Claw, Stalker, Shadowstrike )

6 Fire Dragons

6 Fire Dragons

Troops - 3 - 916 points

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Power Weapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend )
Wave Serpent ( TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones )

Heavy Support - 2 - 350 points

Falcon ( Pulse Laser, 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holofield, Spirit Stones )

Falcon ( Pulse Laser, 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holofield, Spirit Stones )

Total - 1845 points

I think this list will be much more competitive. Took some Brightlances for heavy tanks. 2 dooms will be more usefull in this list because I have 3 bladestorm Avenger squads now. 5 points leftover and dont know what to do with them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Man, just came up with another list that really grabs me, please let me know which list is better, this one or the one in my last post :

Eldar 1850 Mechanized Force

HQ - 2 - 175 points

Farseer ( Runes of Warding, Doom )

Farseer ( Doom )

Elites - 2 - 598 points

6 Fire Dragons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent ( TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones )

10 Howling Banshees ( Exarch, Executioner )
Wave Serpent ( TL Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones )

Troops - 3 - 901 points

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Power Weapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend )
Wave Serpent ( TL Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones )

Heavy Support - 1 - 175 points

Falcon ( 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holofield, Spirit Stones )

Total - 1849 points

Why two dooms? Rather take guide with one seer and doom with other... How often will you doom two squads? Eldars usually take opponents piece by piece...

I guess we're looking at list 2... I don't like having no wave serpent dragons... I guess you gonna drive one in falcon... I personally don't like it (played against it many times) as when you drive in dragons, you make falcon vulnerable... Try to find serpent for them...

Second, shuriken cannon on falcon... Don't do it... Take something better... Why put 24'' on mobile unit? Go with scatter laser then or take missile...

And I think that every competitive eldar list should have full heavy support... It's their by far best slot...

Falcon dragons is sort of pointless. They don't get the energy field for free that a Serpent would get, and you have to put tons of points into a falcon to make it a holo-falcon. Falcons are gunboats in 5th edition. Using them to drop a suicide squad off is no longer a worthwhile pursuit.

On that alone, you'd want 'list 2'.

Any reason why both the Farseers aren't rolled up into one Eldrad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Crusaderobr wrote:Thanks for all the advice guys. After thinking on all the points brought up in this thread, here is what I came up with :

Eldar 1850 Mechanized Force

HQ - 2 - 175 points

Farseer ( Runes of Warding, Doom )

Farseer ( Doom )

Elites - 3 - 404 points

10 Striking Scorpions ( Exarch, Scorpions Claw, Stalker, Shadowstrike )

6 Fire Dragons

6 Fire Dragons

Troops - 3 - 916 points

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Power Weapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend )
Wave Serpent ( TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Bright Lance, Spirit Stones )

Heavy Support - 2 - 350 points

Falcon ( Pulse Laser, 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holofield, Spirit Stones )

Falcon ( Pulse Laser, 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holofield, Spirit Stones )

Total - 1845 points

I think this list will be much more competitive. Took some Brightlances for heavy tanks. 2 dooms will be more usefull in this list because I have 3 bladestorm Avenger squads now. 5 points leftover and dont know what to do with them.

I must admit that I am not a fan of the Falcon. Usually 5 Firedragons can kill anything. you can drop the two 6 man squads down to 5. Roll up both of your seers into Eldrad. Give the Fire Dragons Wave Serpents with Scatter Lasers and swap the falcons for Fire Prisms. /humble opinion. Your list is still good.

Crusaderobr wrote:

Man, just came up with another list that really grabs me, please let me know which list is better, this one or the one in my last post :

Eldar 1850 Mechanized Force

HQ - 2 - 175 points

Farseer ( Runes of Warding, Doom )

Farseer ( Doom )

Elites - 2 - 598 points

6 Fire Dragons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent ( TL Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones )

10 Howling Banshees ( Exarch, Executioner )
Wave Serpent ( TL Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones )

Troops - 3 - 901 points

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Power Weapon and Shimmershield, Bladestorm, Defend )
Wave Serpent ( TL Eldar Missile Launcher, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones )

10 Dire Avengers ( Exarch, Dual Avenger Shuriken Catipults, Bladestorm )
Wave Serpent ( TL Brightlance, Spirit Stones )

Heavy Support - 1 - 175 points

Falcon ( 2x Shuriken Cannon, Holofield, Spirit Stones )

Total - 1849 points

Second list is already better. Remember that the WS is WS3 so BL is maybe a bit more points on the upgrade than you want. I would swap the Falcon to a WS for the other FD squad and use them as your dedicated AT. once you have 2 FD squads, few of the hard to kill tanks will survive. You can then drop your BL on your WS to EML, this is still effective at killing AV10/11.

You might notice that the SS/Defend exarch doesn't really do what you want it to. Swap that squad to the same as the others(dual cats, bladestorm). Remove the SS from the tanks, you might even be able to free up the points to add 2 fire prisms. My 1850 list, to maintain your set of units will look like this:

HQ

Eldrad

Elite
FDx5 WS Scatter/Shuri
FDx5 WS Scatter/Shuri
Howling Bansheex10(exarch, executioner) WS EML/Scatter

Troop
DAx10(exarch, dual cats, Bladestorm) WS EML
DAx10(exarch, dual cats, Bladestorm) WS EML
Storm Guardian (2 flamer, lock destructor) WS EML

Heavy Support
Fire Prism
Fire Prism

I am at work and haven't calculated the points, but I am sure you should be able to get this into 1850. I will try to work out the points a bit later(unless someone has a codex handy that can supply the points for this list).

This gives you ALOT of AT, and you can swap some of the EML's to Scatter or Shuri's since you will be very AT heavy.

Storm guardians? I've never seen them work well at all. I'd stick to DA

I don't know about that...16 Ork boyz + a PK nob sitting on an objective incinerated in one go by a TL(Doom) Heavy flamer + 2 flamers seems like a pretty good deal. That is my experience with SG.

OP, if you take a Falcon, take it as a gunboat, drop a Seer with Runes of Warding and Guide inside together with 5 DA and you have the toughest scoring unit in the Eldar mech list.

A variation of your first list:

HQ:

Farseer with RoWarding and Guide

Farseer with Doom

Elites:

5 Fire Dragons
+ Wave Serpent with TL Shuriken cannon and Spirit stones

5 Fire Dragons
+ Wave Serpent with TL Shuriken cannon and Spirit stones

8 Howling Banshees(Exarch with Executioner)
+ Wave Serpent with TL Shuriken cannon and Spirit stones

Troops:

10 Dire Avengers(Exarch with Dual AvengerShurikenCatapults, Bladestorm)
+ Wave Serpent with TL Brightlance, Spirit stones


10 Storm Guardians with dual flamers, Warlock with Destructor
+ Wave Serpent with TL Brightlance, Spirit stones

5 Dire Avengers

Heavy Support:

Falcon with EML, Holofields and Spirit stones

Fire Prism

Fire Prism

Total: 1849 points

Banshees can work just as well with 8 as with 10, especially with Doom support(they'll usually kill off squads in first round of combat, if you pick your target carefully). Those Troop Serpents have Brightlances because a really effective tactic for a mech list(especially ones that field LRs) is to simply kill those units that can target their tanks and after that simply killing the Troops and they won. Well, in the list I posted(and the one I use myself, though to a lesser extent) everything is a threat to their tanks and their infantry. It messes their target priority.

Tell me what you think.

I like it... Pretty potent for 1850... I think that at this pts cap, I'd have lot of problems against it

So, thank god that you miss one prism and 3 wave serpents to make it happen

Eheheh...I could always go with 2 Falcons and Warwalkers instead...then I'm missing "just" the 3 Serpents.

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Storm guardians? I've never seen them work well at all. I'd stick to DA

I used to feel that way. When you run up to a target in cover with 3 flamers, come back and tell me they don't work that well. I really like having one of them in my squad. At 1500 i play 2 max DA squads and one Storm Guardian squad now. Less points and kill about as much(or more) as either DA squad.

Fair enough. Maybe I need to improve my skills at using them

Storm Guardians are superior to DAs in some instances, inferior in others. I'd have to agree if you have never used them successfully it's one of two things: 1) your playstyle or 2) the armies you played against were whole-hog mech.

Mine usually reap many souls, but when they don't they epic fail.

Well, you're breaking with conventional wisdom on a mech eldar list. As people discuss lists more and more, we tend to hone in on one or two specific builds. They tend to be optimized, but sometimes we can convince ourselves that a good unit is actually bad. So, I'd guess this has a small chance of working out great and doing an amazing job. But, it has a pretty good chance of just being sub-optimal and doing poorly.

Critiques on your list:
Farseers are awesome, but I'd try to roll the two of them into 1, possibly even Eldrad.

Fire Dragons should be in a WS, always, no exceptions. They can't get to where they need to go on foot. And, in a Falcon, they force the Falcon to charge the enemy line, which is exactly where it doesn't want to be.

Banshees are interesting. I'm definitely curious to see how they work out for you. IMO, they tend to look better on paper than in a game. The trick is how to use them. They can't be left outside the WS, because they quickly get shot to pieces, so it all comes down to leaving your WS in a position where next turn they can disembark+fleet+assault. It's tricky, but do-able. I typically vote for Scorpions if you want a CC squad, but with FnP...

Please, no Shimmershield/Defend on the Dire Avengers. Avengers simply die way too quickly in CC to be worthwhile. They should be hiding in the WS until the moment they pop out and shoot a squad to death. If they get assaulted, they're screwed, and a Shimmershield/Power Weapon/Defend combo isn't going to save them. Take the dual-catapults for the 5 extra shots!

Falcon can be good. I prefer Fire Prism, but often times use a Falcon. Don't bother with the under-slung Cannon, and try to make it main gun an EML. A plasma shot counts as a defensive weapon, so you can move and shoot all it's guns. Or else, make it a Brightlance, as then you have 3 S8 Ap2 shots.