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In a simple 1500 point game or as a general preference, which would you take.

In general for BA's I would take Vindicators or Riffle Dreads and for Vanilla Marines I would go Predators

Kind of depends on how I have structured the rest of my list.

I have an unatural hate for Preds, so rock the Vendi.

When you say "mixed" I am assuming Autocannon w/Las sponsons and if that's the case at 1500 points I vote for Pred. Vindicators only work well in twos and threes. One Vindicator just gets targeted first turn and loses it's weapon. l

Yes, by mixed I mean autocannon with las sponsoons.

Predator unless you are already using rifle man dreads or typhoon speeders then take the vindicator.

Vindicators really work best in pairs or triplets, in which case they shine. If you're taking a single choice, a mixed pred. But it really depends on the rest of the list...

AC/las predator is just so good it makes me giddy. It is one of the most consistent transport killers in the game.

edit: ranged transport killer, that is.

Love Predators with AC/las. Can sit and pop tanks from a distance, but also like the vindicators too large blast strength 10 does good work! With vanilla marines 1 AC/las predator and 2 vindicator tanks makes a deadly combo...

I think that both the Pred and the Vindi are similar (tactically speaking). Their armor values are the same. They are both able to lay down a large amount of fire, and are within 5 points of each other. Because they both have uber AP2 weapons (the vindis cannon, and the preds pair of lascannons), they can handle MEQ armies really well.

After that however, the similarities end. My vote went to the Pred cause it can fire 48", while the vindi needs to get close (24"). Also, one pred can make a huge difference. One vindi is going to be skewered turn one or two.

Umm tactically speaking, they couldn't be more different. Sure, they share armor value, but really that is where the similarities end.

Tactically, the AC/las pred is better staying in the back providing long distance fire support. Conversely, the vindicator is your front line tank that leads an advance. Quite different in both tactics and strategy.

The only similarity is the armor value. Just because they both have (some for the pred) AP 2 weapons does not make them similar, you don't want to be shooting the same targets at all.

Minigun has it as far as i am concerned. It looks as though you are playing vanilla marines so my vote most definitely goes for preds.

One Vindicator is fine vs. heavy armor.
But more than one is generally not worth it.
Better use some Predators for long-range fire support.
This is what you'll need ab initio.

What I know is, an Auto Las Pred Spammed army will beat a Vindicator Spammed army any time to the day.

Well duh. It'll shoot them off the board. Vindis aren't anti-vehicle units.

Here's my schtick. Don't look at 'em in a vacuum. For example, if you're running a mechanized advance you'll likely have enough targets that the Vindi won't be such a huge threat. If you're light on vehicles, the Preds will be wanted so only the longest ranged weapons can kill them.

Me, I still have playtesting to do. I run a Drop Pod army that drops 2 Ironclads and Sternguard on Turn 1. In my case, Vindicators might be better for some needed S10 and Terminator squashing, and will be much more survivable due to the fact that my opponent will have other targets to shoot at. Alternately Mixed Preds will be able to snipe out the vehicles that most threaten my Drop Troops and might be of more use.

I would say first look at what fits into your army better, and then next, pick and playtest to see if your choice works out.

Pvt. Jet wrote:Well duh. It'll shoot them off the board. Vindis aren't anti-vehicle units.

Here's my schtick. Don't look at 'em in a vacuum. For example, if you're running a mechanized advance you'll likely have enough targets that the Vindi won't be such a huge threat. If you're light on vehicles, the Preds will be wanted so only the longest ranged weapons can kill them.

Me, I still have playtesting to do. I run a Drop Pod army that drops 2 Ironclads and Sternguard on Turn 1. In my case, Vindicators might be better for some needed S10 and Terminator squashing, and will be much more survivable due to the fact that my opponent will have other targets to shoot at. Alternately Mixed Preds will be able to snipe out the vehicles that most threaten my Drop Troops and might be of more use.

I would say first look at what fits into your army better, and then next, pick and playtest to see if your choice works out.

Uhh even if your are running a mechanized advance, any sane player would shoot the vindicators first. And your Podding Ironclads will suck all the melta weaponry.
Also, I dont know how vindicators are good against terminators.... most of the time they are in assault, or not bunched up that close or will save those S10 shots. Then again if your vindicators live long enough to shoot at terminators, you deserve to win.

Depends what army really, if I'm gunning with BT they NEED that extra at fire from the trilas predator.

Chaos makes due with oblits and vindicators.

BA's do the baal preds.

wuestenfux wrote:One Vindicator is fine vs. heavy armor.
But more than one is generally not worth it.
Better use some Predators for long-range fire support.
This is what you'll need ab initio.

Wow, this is horribly incorrect. The LasPlas can be taken in singles, the Vindi can not. Either one takes 2-3 Vindis or you leave them at home.

Sentai_Sage wrote:I have an unatural hate for Preds, so rock the Vendi.

I have an unnatural hate for vidis so rock the pred.

Actually the entire problem stems from the hull. its AV 13 11 10.

If you arm it with a short range gun it has to close and exposes its week sides and dies.

S 10 is awesome, but in general sense, that vindicators short range exposes its weakness, where a pred will sit out there at 36-48 and chuck it out all game long at AV 13 front.

Always the better choice?

No,

Generally so?

Yes.

EDIT

Also a pred is still viable for something after a weapon destroyed, a vindi, well its a box.

(Format edits)

Yuber wrote:Also, I dont know how vindicators are good against terminators.... most of the time they are in assault, or not bunched up that close or will save those S10 shots. Then again if your vindicators live long enough to shoot at terminators, you deserve to win.

It's pretty simple really blow up the landraider with a melta unit, fire on the contents with a vindi. Even if they aren't bunched you can usually get 3~ hits on them, and they are generally small squads. Also it's part of why deep striking biggish groups of terminators is not a terribly good idea- because you do arrive in a perfect vindicator formation. Or plasma cannon formation, whatever your anti-TEQ template flavour is. It's kinda like this game I had with Bjorn, sitting on a hill looking out over a home objective and 2 fields objectives... he shot 3 times and killed 2 terms and 3 marines in total with all the cover. Whoop de doo, my 270 point HQ unit got to twiddle his DCCW! But as I pointed out to my opponent after the game... No one wanted to walk in direct view of Bjorn. No one wants to walk in front of a BS6 Plasma cannon! And in direct view of Bjorn were 3/4 objectives. So whilst he DID twiddle his thumbs all game, he did also force my opponent to avoid an area of the battlefield- i forced him to play the way i wanted him to. Vindicators force your opponent to spread out and hug cover, and I find its not always possible to spread out and remain in cover, especially from other, more rapid elements of the army like speeders or rhinos for example closing in to hit them from positions where they are out of cover.

Yea that's true, vindicators are a great deterrent, they can serve that purpose well.

One really shouldnt be exposing side armour on the Vindi, I usually have one rhino/RB and one LR blocking each side. AV13 with a +4 (or+3) Cover save, yes please.

So I suppose I should ask for opinions from more than one Dakka-ite. For a Drop Pod army, which of these vehicles wins out? Mixed Pred or Vindicator?

You don't have other vehicles for Cover saves but if your opponent is shooting at your Vindicators, he's not shooting at your Dreads/Sternguard/Tacticals/LSSs and vice versa. Whereas Predators won't get shot as much by the opponent and can provide Long Range firepower which Drop lists typically lack.

Augustus wrote:Yea that's true, vindicators are a great deterrent, they can serve that purpose well.

I would argue that its not that they can serve that purpose, but they do. Nothing likes getting hit by str10 ord... glancing a landraider on a 4's with 2 dice, pick the best, pretty much everything else in the game I can think of is wounded on a 2+ with no armour saves, from the toughest terminators to the lowliest grot, that demolisher cannon does not discriminate. Working that factor into your vindicators gameplan is part of making vindicators shine.

I play blood angels and at 1500 points the decision for me isnt pred or vindi, its 2 or 3 of each. at 1500 its gotta be 2of each although no sponsons on the preds, not a big fan of sponsons. move fast and fire one weapon is more versatile than sitting in one spot firing.

Id say this is quite a hard question. Vindicator only has one weapon, but I prefer it.


Vindi.

Jaon wrote:Id say this is quite a hard question. Vindicator only has one weapon, but I prefer it.


Vindi.

There's nothing like watching several hundred points of stuff cower behind cover at the other end of the map because of 230 points worth of tanks

Pvt. Jet wrote:So I suppose I should ask for opinions from more than one Dakka-ite. For a Drop Pod army, which of these vehicles wins out? Mixed Pred or Vindicator?

You don't have other vehicles for Cover saves but if your opponent is shooting at your Vindicators, he's not shooting at your Dreads/Sternguard/Tacticals/LSSs and vice versa. Whereas Predators won't get shot as much by the opponent and can provide Long Range firepower which Drop lists typically lack.

The problem with this reasoning is that your Vindis will eat long range fire while the dreads will suffer from melta to the face syndrome...Having the demolisher shells scattering onto your troops is not very nice either. In a Pod list if I had to chose Id go for the ACLC Pred any day of the week

Thank for the answers everyone. The list is mostly a footslogging list with bikes being the fastest there. Also included are termies and three tactical squads.

As a general idea, people prefer vindis in pairs and preds on their own? I could drop my dread for including both but he's already painted

Flexibility makes a winning army, so I'd pick the Predator.