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Hey Dakkadakka!

Me and my friend Tyrell have been playing Warhammer for some time now and have decided that it is time to explore the vast world of historic tabletop games.

The problem lies in that we have no idea where to start!

There are sooooooooo many different games, models, rulesets etc. to sift through that it seems like a little bit of help is in order.

With that being said, what are some of your favorite games that deal with either the Medieval, Early Modern, or WWI/WWII period? Where does one go about finding the models required to play these games? And most importantly, WHICH OF THESE GAMES ARE THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE?

Thanks so much,

Meyer

Hrothgar wrote:Hey Dakkadakka!

Me and my friend Tyrell have been playing Warhammer for some time now and have decided that it is time to explore the vast world of historic tabletop games.

The problem lies in that we have no idea where to start!

To be honest, Im not surprised you feel that way! Part of the problem new players find with historical gaming is the massive diversity with no one fixed ruleset or easily available 'codexs'.

Flames of War have gone part of the way to providing a GW style experience, as have the Warhammer Ancients rulesets, but there are tons of great games available.

So firstly, welcome, and I hope you enjoy it.

Hrothgar wrote:There are sooooooooo many different games, models, rulesets etc. to sift through that it seems like a little bit of help is in order.

With that being said, what are some of your favorite games that deal with either the Medieval, Early Modern, or WWI/WWII period? Where does one go about finding the models required to play these games? And most importantly, WHICH OF THESE GAMES ARE THE MOST COST EFFECTIVE?

Thanks so much,

Meyer

Firstly, they are all cost effective if compared to GW prices. In general historical miniatures are a great deal cheaper, even for what some consider 'premier' brands. Take the Perry Twins for example. Their 28mm figures are £1 each for infantry models.

What you will find however is that some sets require large numbers of figures and that can raise the price of course.

There is also the question of different scales. Do you want to play in 28mm, or are you willing to consider 20mm, 15mm, 10mm or 6mm? All have differeing drawbacks and benefits, are all good for different things and all different prices!


Really your best bet is to choose a period that you really like or are interested in (Im presuming thats your list of options quoted?) and talking it from there. You will find there are a great many gamers who will tell you that the rules they play are the best, while just as many will tell you that the same rules are crap!

For myself, I use the following game systems...

Medieval - I currently use Impetus as I like how the game feels and how it plays. To me it gives a better recreation of the feel of medieval warfare than other sets. I also like Warhammer Ancients, but really it is just Warhammer with no magic phase and, to me, lacks the right feel.

Early Modern - Only one set for me - Black Powder. I use it for AWI, Napoleonics and ACW. They are similar in some aspects to Warmaster, but give a good, fast playing and fun game. They are quite freeform though and you have to do a bit of work yourself choosing suitable ratings for forces, but I like that. Its not hard work, much the same as picking an army lists really.

WW2 - I use different sets depending on the scale of the game I am playing. For battalion level games, I use Rapid Fire 2. Very fast, simple but effective system for recreating big battles. For smaller scale actions, such as at platoon level, I use Ambush Alley and Force-On-Force.

I hope thats of some help. Just remember to have fun with whatever you decide to do.

You may aslo want to consider lurking on a few historical forums and asking around them for ideas... Most are a welcoming bunch.

My own forum - www.guildwargamers.com has a load of players of various periods, though we are mainly focussed on WW2 and Moderns. But if you want ideas and help, the lads are a great bunch.

As BigP covered - focus first on period and scale. The other consideration is who your playing with. If its going to be more that just the two of you, its worth finding out what the local groups are running & see if you can match.

Looks like your out East - can you make it to one of the big historical conventions like Historicon? Not only would it give you access to a lot of games, but the vendor hall should give you hands on access to a lot of the figs.

All good advice........

Flames of War seems like an obvious choice for the WWII era as it's a similar 'style' to Warhammer Fantasy/40k... I.E. it is focused around building lists of X points as opposed to recreating scenarios, and the rules definitely remind me of GW rules, albeit a bit cleaner.

I have found that FOW is great for competitive play rule set, It also matters on what you are trying to achieve?

Flames of War sacrifices a lot of depth for playability, and while that is a good thing in certain settings, you will largely be left scratching your head when it comes to historical results and the historical tactical experience. I'm a fan of DH/C7B, its great for WW2 Skirmish, and they have several other settings (Modern, Pulp Fiction etc). Blitzkrieg Commander is also a rule set I have heard many great things about, and it covers various time periods as well as scales. The great thing about historical wargaming is the myriad of options to choose from. It is still my bread and butter when it comes to wargaming and painting, I don't think you'll be let down when you really sink your teeth into historical wargames.

Edit: I used to live in Massachusetts, there are some great guys there when it comes to historicals, and other wargames in general! You'll have no problem at all! You could check out Battlegroup Boston, they run a convention called Havoc in March!

Thanks for all your help guys! Where could i go about browsing some models online? Also, which scale do you guys think is most common?

http://warhammer.org.uk/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21409
Link list for WAB. Will give you a general list by period of 28mm manufactures.

Hrothgar wrote:Also, which scale do you guys think is most common?

Honestly?

All of them.

Certain periods and rules seem to have 'adopted' certain scales but there is no real majority.

Also historical wargamers are never the most sensible... I do the same period in different scales!

For me WW2 has always been 20mm, but many play it in 15mm, alot in 28mm and I also have 6mm armies for the period.

In Napoleonics bith 15mm and 28mm are the main sizes, I have armies for the period in both scales.

Warhammer Ancients is unsurprisingly 28mm...


Your best bet is to see what people are playing near you and see what you like.


But honestly, just buy what you fancy painting and worry about the rest later.

I'm just starting FoW, but if you are looking for a lighter experience there is always the Axis & Allies CMG. As long as you can tolerate the collectible format, I hear it is fun to play. I haven't tried it yet, although I'm a big fan and collector of the Axis & Allies naval game.

Axis & Allies CMG isnt bad. The only problem is it is no where as accurate as other possible formats. Not to mention, unless you Ebay hunt for specific minatures you are at the mercy of what you get from the booster packs. Which, if you are looking for specific, iconic minatures you are doomed to either going Ebay or buying a ton of them.

Me and a friend of mine played out a game and I think I lost two King Tigers to 1 sherman. And it was pretty consistent on the outcome.

Something like that wouldnt happen very often in historical Minis.


I personally like the FoW ruleset, and most of the battlefront minatures. But with FoW you do not even have to buy those specifically given the number of companies that produce 15mm WWII!
IT is a great jumping off point.

Of course, there is always the route of going to your local gaming store and asking around for anyone else that plays Historical. There are bound to be people around there and most are eager for new players/more players!

I have just ordered some magnificent napoleonic troops from the perry twins plastic range , amazing value for money and qaulity. you should check em out especially their beautifull plastics range. gonna be making planetary governor personnele deffence force from my praxus novella with those beauties heavily converted of course! if you do find a distinct set of rules please post a linky to them.

http://www.perry-miniatures.com/index2.html

edit the minatures arrived , and they are very nice but i think converting them into 40k use will be limited as even though they are 28mm the are accurately proportioned, unlike the 40k minis, but if placed on 40k bases they look just about passable as a ig force albeit a little small, i actually think i could come to prefer this size for ig especially as it makes the space marines look , real sized .

re edit ooh after a couple of hours converting i have found the minatures to be extremely good for ig, will be posting a pic of them in my blog of the work so far

This is all great stuff guys thanks so much.

Me and Tyrell have agreed to start building up some Normands and Saxons and fight some intense 11th century battles!

Impetus looks pretty solid, any other 11th/12th century european rule sets worth looking into?

Hrothgar wrote:

Impetus looks pretty solid, any other 11th/12th century european rule sets worth looking into?

I would stick with Impetus personally.

There is always Warhammer Ancients, but Impetus works well for your chosen period. I prefer it to Fields of Glory and DBA by a long way.

Warlord Games are bringing out an Ancients version of BlackPowder that should cover that period.

Oh and dont forget the plastic Normans due out soon!

Alright it seems like me and tyrell have decided that the medieval period is where we want to go. Done a bit of research and found that Impetus has some mixed reviews and have also been recommended Fields of Glory.

Anyone have any other medieval recommendations? Impetus seems to have some pretty solid backing, but there are a few people who seem to be ardently against it.

Thanks for the help!

Impetus all the way for me. I have only just started playing it but it has got me interested in the Ancient and Medieval periods for the first time, while DBA leaves me cold. I think those against Impetus are the hardline DBA competition players who seem to feel very threatened by its popularity. Given that they probably are in their 40's and live with Mummy, Im not surprised.

For 'Fields of Glory' you will need ALOT of figures... I have the rules as we are doing 100YW and I just cant face painting the number of figures they seem to require. Not overly keen on the mechanics either.

Of course you could always use WAB. Age of Chivalry supplement covers the medieval period, one of the better periods too, though depending on what area you are doing you may want to get the Vlad the Impaler book too.

Foundry do a set of medieval rules that I have heard varying reports about but I have never played them so cant really comment.

What medieval period are you looking at? The Perry Twins have another late-medieval plastic boxset due out this year.

Hrothgar wrote:Done a bit of research and found that Impetus has some mixed reviews and have also been recommended Fields of Glory.

Anyone have any other medieval recommendations? Impetus seems to have some pretty solid backing, but there are a few people who seem to be ardently against it.

Well... I think research will also show that there are at least as many people ardently against Fields of Glory

That's just the way it is with historical rule sets, because different people prefer different levels of abstraction and "period flavor" means different things to different people.

While I do not have 1st-hand experience with Fields of Glory, I've gathered that most people agree with the following generalization.

DBA: Highest abstraction, shortest play time

Impetus: Medium abstraction, medium play time

Fields of Glory: Lowest abstraction, longest play time

I've often seen typical Fields of Glory games being described as having "extremely detailed rules" and taking the better part of a day to complete a battle. While that didn't sound like what I'd like, it could very well be what you're looking for.

Other alternatives would be (off the top of my head):

WAB (Warhammer Ancient Battles)

WMA (Warmaster Ancients)

DBMM (De Bellis Magistrorum Militum, the newer and less abstract version of DBA)

There could be more, but these are the more popular ones that I can think of at the moment.

Hmm yes FoG does look quite intimidating. All their stats are described in words! Very different if you are used to numeric systems like WAB. But all in all it is all down to how much realism/abstraction you want.

Wow- you just have so many options. Historical 28mm Skirmish WW2 is probably my favorite miniatures wargaming sub-segment. I really love FOW, and to play much larger troop count battles, this is agreat way to go, and I fully endorse it.

I came from a WarhammerFB/40k background, and I knew I wanted to stay with 28mm scale (primarily so I woudln't have to go out and buy all new terrain, and partially because the scale and size really appeals to me more than 15mm & 20mm's). You have lots of options for rulesets and models at any of these scales. Of these various rulesets, I can proudly recommend 2 excellent ones to look into:
Iron Ivan's Disposable Heroes http://www.thewarstore.com/IronIvan.html rules and
Easy Eights Battleground WW2 ruleset. http://www.syrhobbswargames.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=SHWL&Category_Code=EEE

Iron Ivan's game is better supported, but I prefer the Easy Eight's game for its quick play and some clever realism elements.

As for the minis themselves there are lots of options...
I learned a lot at The Miniatures Page forums http://theminiaturespage.com/boards/boards.mv?period=ww2land .
While there are dozens of options from relatively large and small producers, I went with Artizan, but Warlord/Bolt Action has some new low cost plastics that are very good.
I am happy to elaborate further- just send me an email or pm.

Anyway, I hope this helps...

what fantasy armies do you have?