Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Has anyone noticed that terrain builders who make off the shelf roads for TT games, are by and large too narrow for 40k?? I mean, the GW rolled up roads have lines for the driving lanes, but the "smallest" of imperial tanks fills up both lanes!!

I have noticed this same problem with just about every other option i have found online.

Does anyone know of a webstore, or some company that makes appropriately scaled roads, or how to get more "realistically" scaled roads onto the table without looking too tacky?

To be fair, an imperial tank is probably considerably larger than any civilian vehicle that the roads would be constructed for.

And let's face it, when is a tank ever going to have to deal with traffic?

6" wide is an appropriate width for a two lane road, IMO. The smallest tanks are actually the Centaur chassis, at only 2.5" wide. I'd allow at least an inch of clearance on either side of that road, though, so two Rhino or Chimera chassis vehicles can still drive side by side, by going up onto the sidewalks.

the biggest reason i ask about this is because, if you look at modern tanks, there isn't a single tank in the US arsenal (or much of anywhere else) that can't fit on a standard width road.

I mean, a Leman Russ or Predator tank (with no sponsons on the sides) should be able to drive side by side on most roads without hitting sidewalks.

Part of the problem is GWs inability to stay on anything close to scale.

Clown car rhino, for instance.

Maenus_Rajhana wrote:To be fair, an imperial tank is probably considerably larger than any civilian vehicle that the roads would be constructed for.

Possibly not. Civilian loads go pretty large.



The reason why roads look too small is because the horizontal scale of the game is distorted. A rifle can shoot several hundred yards, but in the game it can only shoot 24 inches. This makes all the vehicles much larger than they should be.

I assume all terrain is much larger than it is portrayed. A 24" range is several hundred metres in my mind, and it zooms in for CC.

I have always thought of it this way, it's kind of cool.

Ensis Ferrae wrote:Has anyone noticed that terrain builders who make off the shelf roads for TT games, are by and large too narrow for 40k?? I mean, the GW rolled up roads have lines for the driving lanes, but the "smallest" of imperial tanks fills up both lanes!!

I have noticed this same problem with just about every other option i have found online.

Does anyone know of a webstore, or some company that makes appropriately scaled roads, or how to get more "realistically" scaled roads onto the table without looking too tacky?

Have you worked out how wide tanks are? Real ones or 40K ones? They're twice as wide as cars or bigger.

Typical road width is 10-12 feet per lane (roads in the UK are usually around 20 feet with 18 being common in some areas), in the US 25 is more common). Most modern tanks are 12-14 feet wide (cars are 6 feet wide) so they take up a full lane and a bit. A Leman Russ is approximately 16 feet wide without sponsons.

A road big enough to accomodate two leman russes with sponsons would be 40 feet wide. That's a UK dual-carriageway (four lanes of traffic)!

To put that into model terms, a road should be 4-5" wide while a leman russ is 3" wide.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Ensis Ferrae wrote:I mean, a Leman Russ or Predator tank (with no sponsons on the sides) should be able to drive side by side on most roads without hitting sidewalks.

A leman russ is 16 feet wide. Think three small cars side-by-side, that's how big it is. Are you saying that six small cars can drive down a road together?

Tank design has some things to remember:

- shall this vehicle use streets and bridges? If so, its size and weigth is restricted.
- transport capacity of the orbital landers. Again, size and weigth matters.
- Imperial standard width for streets. Real life sizes is all good and fine....but those TT Tanks exist in a different setting.

IMO, major streets and most of the basic roads should provide enough space for common tanks like Russes.
The administratum would take care of a Imperium wide standard. Thats what such bureacrats are made for.

But I doubt the pre-made streets are big enough, as a 'true-scale' 4wheeled recon vehicle would be nearly as big as a chimera and the IoM has also trucks to move
its stuff so Russes should not need 2 lanes on anything worth the name "road".

Seems your only source of correct streets is yourself. Get some surfaces you like ( as: card, plastic, foil,...) but without markings, and make your own.

Ordo Dakka wrote:I assume all terrain is much larger than it is portrayed. A 24" range is several hundred metres in my mind, and it zooms in for CC.

I have always thought of it this way, it's kind of cool.

There are games which have a variable ground or time scale to accommodate that kind of interaction. 40K isn't one of them, though, so your rationalisation of the situation is just a rationalisation.

It doesn't get around the fact that some vehicle models can be 12 inches long, and put figures at one end of them out of pistol or assault range of models at the other end.

I simply prefer to ignore the logical inconsistencies, accept that it is just a game, and play on.

but tanks DO have to deal with traffic! Why else would they put turn signals on a land rader?

1hadhq wrote:IMO, major streets and most of the basic roads should provide enough space for common tanks like Russes.
The administratum would take care of a Imperium wide standard. Thats what such bureacrats are made for.

We don't build tanks small enough to fit comfortably in a single lane (because there's no need to do so), why would the imperium?

Scott-S6 wrote:

1hadhq wrote:IMO, major streets and most of the basic roads should provide enough space for common tanks like Russes.
The administratum would take care of a Imperium wide standard. Thats what such bureacrats are made for.

We don't build tanks small enough to fit comfortably in a single lane (because there's no need to do so), why would the imperium?

Because the IoM likes to move IG en masse forward, imperial road building standards would make sure they can.
Move in single file is a way to choke streets with wrecks and put a halt to the imperial advance.
So imperial standardized streets would have comfortably sized lanes.

Lets actually state some facts people.
The minimum width for the U.S. Interstate Highway system is 12 feet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interstate_Highway_standards). The Bradley IFV (comparable to the Rhino) is 3.6 m wide (10.8 feet) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradley_IFV). Which means that it fits the minimum requirements for U.S. highways. I am not using normal roads because they vary too much, and you are less standardized than highways. Additionally, an M1 Abrahms MBT is 12 feet wide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams). Even that would fit.

By comparison a Rhino is 3 1/4" wide at its widest point (measured it myself). The GW road is 6" wide (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1095503). Plus it has a shoulder on both sides of the road. Even if they were riding on both the shoulders, two rhinos could not sit side by side (touching), on the GW road. By comparison, two Bradleys could drive (I.E. not touching) side by side comfortably on a U.S. road, and two Abrahms could fit (albeit tightly). So, I agree with Ensis, the road is too narrow for vehicles.


To your original question, I did a pretty long search for roads. Most everything I found seemed to be static, and didn't fit with the "pick up and go" mentality of 40K. I would suggest trying different materials, to see if anything is flexible enough, and still paintable. GW's road is made of vinyl, maybe start there?

Wait what? 2, 12 foot wide tanks could drive side by side down a 12 foot wide road?

I'm afraid I missed something here, are you inferring the GW road is supposed to be 2 times the size of a the noted standard?

yournamehere wrote:Wait what? 2, 12 foot wide tanks could drive side by side down a 12 foot wide road?

No, the lanes are a minimum of 12 feet wide. He's saying two 12 foot wide tanks could fit side by side on a two lane, 12+ foot per lane road.

That's only for highways though. Most roads are smaller. 9 feet or less is not uncommon.

micahaphone wrote:but tanks DO have to deal with traffic! Why else would they put turn signals on a land rader?

AlexHolker wrote:

yournamehere wrote:Wait what? 2, 12 foot wide tanks could drive side by side down a 12 foot wide road?

No, the lanes are a minimum of 12 feet wide. He's saying two 12 foot wide tanks could fit side by side on a two lane, 12+ foot per lane road.

Assuming the tanks are driving along banging into each and constantly grinding at the kerbs.

There is a reason why long distance movements are made by rail.

Might I mention that tanks aren't designed for urban combat so really an argument about tanks on roads is, lets face it, a bit stupid. You know, why drive on the road when you can drive just as well in the dirt beside it.