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I printed the DKoK rules from FW yesterday, and I saw on the back page- Super-heavy detachments!
So I was thinking- it's in the regular 40k rules for DKoK, and it never says that to use them you have to be playing apocalypse- so is it legal to use super-heavies (specifically my shadowsword) in this army for a regular 40k game?

Here's the link to the FW DKoK rules (be warned- it's a download):
http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/k/kreig.pdf

Yes, however like all social contracts people can simply refuse to play you.

Best thing to do is not spring it on someone, and perhaps bring two lists to a pick up game. Some people will be up for the challenge, some wont.

Well first off the term "regular game" typically does not include any imperial armor (FW) materials, so check with your opponent before hand. Tourneys you'll be hard pressed to find any that will allow DKoK as legal, at least around here.

The superheavies are not in a force org slot, they are in a separate detachment. (one of these detachments replaces a force org chart).

If you want to use them you have to agree with your opponent to take two force orgs. He then gets six heavy support choices, etc.

Does the DKoK datasheets for the superheavies give a FOC slot for them? If not then you couldn't take them in a non apocolypse or non spearhead game. Additionally as was stated any IA/Forge World specific units are not normal 40k. Think of it like a supplement in the same vain as Planetstrik or the like, in which you and your opponent will agree to play that type of game and use the IA stuff...and then you could even agree to throw in superheavies as well.

you're all saying different things, but i hope nosferatu is right . My regular gaming buddy (andy-roo 9000) will pro bably let me, I just wanna know if GW staff will.

GW staff as in a GW store friendly game play or tourney? Tournaments you'd be declined in a heartbeat. If playing in a GW store it is between you and your opponent.

Only BRB and Codex are legal, all other must be agreed on by both/all player. Saying that I don't see many poeple saying no (in fun games) if they have a force they think has a chance. Hell I would face off my Army vs. a Super Heavy, for a fun game, remember like said above a SH is 1 whole FoC.

My personal rule: Any FW stuff is fine if I can look it over and it doesn't appear OP. (Dreads assaulting out of a drop pod, I'm looking at you!) But, superheavies are so totally different than anything else in a game, I never allow them. If I had a friend who really wanted to play with one, I'd sit down and learn the rules for them and then, maybe.

So, don't expect to go into a game blind and anyone to allow you to field a superheavy.

I am on about a LGS staff member- i checked with him, and he said "as long as it says it in the rules, it's okay, and I bet most people at my LGS will let me.

IA books are not Codexes, according to the base rulebook you have to select an army from a Codex, therefore anything in IA books cannot be taken under RAW. A super-heavy also doesn't fit into a slot standard force org chart, so can't be taken in regular games. Some people say that they count as their own detachment but I'm not sure if that's actually in Sthe current IA books or if they're just adapting old rules, if it is in the rules then they'd be able to take 4/6/12 of everything instead of 2/3/6.

In general, trying to spring a super-heavy on someone in a normal game is not going to go over well. If opponents are prepped for it it can make a fun game, though even then the game tends to be more about the superheavy than the rest of the table. If you suprise someone with it, especially in a small (2000pt and under) game and they lose because they're not sure how to deal with it, you can expect people to start implementing RAW very strongly or just not playing against it. If you want to get much use out of the model, I strongly recommend talking about it's use before arranging a game, not just plopping it down during deployment.

Also, remember in DKoK, a Super Heavy Detachment is 1-3 similar Super Heavies so 1-3 Baneblade hulled tanks or 1-3 Warhound Titans. The one that is odd to me is why the Reaver Maniple is only Reavers, shouldn't it be 1-3 Reavers and 0-2 Warhounds, maximum of 3 models?

Homer

BearersOfSalvation wrote:IA books are not Codexes, according to the base rulebook you have to select an army from a Codex, therefore anything in IA books cannot be taken under RAW. A super-heavy also doesn't fit into a slot standard force org chart, so can't be taken in regular games. Some people say that they count as their own detachment but I'm not sure if that's actually in Sthe current IA books or if they're just adapting old rules, if it is in the rules then they'd be able to take 4/6/12 of everything instead of 2/3/6.

In general, trying to spring a super-heavy on someone in a normal game is not going to go over well. If opponents are prepped for it it can make a fun game, though even then the game tends to be more about the superheavy than the rest of the table. If you suprise someone with it, especially in a small (2000pt and under) game and they lose because they're not sure how to deal with it, you can expect people to start implementing RAW very strongly or just not playing against it. If you want to get much use out of the model, I strongly recommend talking about it's use before arranging a game, not just plopping it down during deployment.

It isn't in an IA book, it's a FW PDF download- AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

shrike wrote:AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

It would be a much better idea to ask the people you play, not the people responsible for selling you things.

Unless the staff are TOs and you refer to a tourney.

If you asked me to play a normal 40k game and then put a super-heavy down, I would pick up my models and play someone else.

Most of the people I play won't mind, apart froma few whingers

shrike wrote:AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

To bad most are therre to sell toys, not know the rules. It the guy your playing that needs to be OK with it, the BRB says, it and Codex only. That means Games Workshop Army Codex, not WD IA or PDF, techniclly even FAQ. Like I said before I would play, but even then I except to know ahead of time.

Noir wrote:

shrike wrote:AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

the guy your playing needs to be OK with it

MOST OF THEM ARE. I SAID THAT ALREADY.

shrike wrote:

Noir wrote:

shrike wrote:AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

the guy your playing needs to be OK with it

MOST OF THEM ARE. I SAID THAT ALREADY.

My point is GW store staff are mostly uninformed, store clerks there to sell toy. So saying in cap the staff says I can, really just means buy the model. Not, it is allowed offically by GW.

Noir wrote:

shrike wrote:AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

To bad most are therre to sell toys, not know the rules. It the guy your playing that needs to be OK with it, the BRB says, it and Codex only. That means Games Workshop Army Codex, not WD IA or PDF, techniclly even FAQ. Like I said before I would play, but even then I except to know ahead of time.

If he's playing at a store, and that store uses a set of established house rules determined by the staff, then the opinion of the staff is most definitely relevant...

shrike wrote:MOST OF THEM ARE. I SAID THAT ALREADY.

Can we please stop with the shouting?

Sorry I was understanding this thread was about the legal use of FW rule, like asked when it started, not just his game store. As such my post were made with that idea still in mind.

I know there's a few scenarios that involve a super-heavy, and often 750-1000pts of the opposing force.

The stompa one springs to mind, it's quite a fun scenario, as long as you don't play it constantly, and i've played it against SW, Chaos and Eldar a few times. It involves one stompa and 1000pts of any army.

Basically the stompa (this could be replaced with any super heavy) starts at one short table edge. The narrative is that it's carriying the wounded general or a vital piece of information about the other force.

To win the stompa must cross the other short board edge and destroy over half the enemy's army. The enemy player starts with half his army on the table (no further away than 12" from the other short table edge) and the other half of his army comes on, as per the rules for reinforcements, starting from turn 2, from either the player's own short table edge, or anywhere along the long table edges, as long as it's within half of the legnth of the table. The opposing army win if they destoy the stompa, or if it has not achieved both victory conditions by the end of turn 4 (i think, it could be 5).

shrike wrote:

insaniak wrote:

shrike wrote:MOST OF THEM ARE. I SAID THAT ALREADY.

Can we please stop with the shouting?

OKAY! oops. okay.

You missed a [/ quote] in there.

kirsanth wrote:You missed a [/ quote] in there.

i did another [ /quote] thingy, It got my post out, but put blank post in

shrike wrote:It isn't in an IA book, it's a FW PDF download- AND THE STAFF AT MY FLGS SAID I CAN USE IT.

That's great, just bear in mind that the superheavies do not fit into a force org chart - you need to be taking two force org charts (same for your opponent) in order to use them.

Okay- I'll tell them they can have 2 force org charts

You might be disappointed with the superheavies though - things like a trio of tri-las preds makes short work of them for similar points.

Scott-S6 wrote:You might be disappointed with the superheavies though - things like a trio of tri-las preds makes short work of them for similar points.

I'm only using the 3 supers in my army to fill a points hole. when I get up to 2,500 points, I'm dropping the baneblade

If your opponent says "no," you could always just field it as a Russ with a TON of unnecessary guns.