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Ok, So my wife is really interested in the Wrathguard and lords of the eldar, but she is also a fan of the Fire Prism, So we are trying to put together a effective list for a 1850 Tournament, Let me know what you think guys, is it good, is it bad, what needs to be changed to make it effective, or can it even be done correctly with this theme.

HQ

Farseer Point 75
-Eldritch Storm

Farseer Point 75
-Eldritch Storm

Troop

10 x Guardian Point 85
-Platform Shurken Cannon

10 x Guardian Point 85
-Platform Shurken Cannon

Elite

10 x Wrathguard point 381
-Warlock
--Spiritseer

10 x Wrathguard point 381
-Warlock
--Spiritseer

10 x Wrathguard point 381
-Warlock
--Spiritseer

Heavy

Wrathlord Point 100
-1 x Wrathsword
-2 x Shuriken Catapult

Fire Prism Point 160
-Holo Field
-Shuriken Cannon

Fire Prism point 115

I'll be blunt on it because I really hate seeing people blow piles of $ on Wraithguard just to be let down. They are really pretty aweful and are one of those "looks great on paper" units, but fail hard in competitive play. They are shearly too expensive for what they can do and any player that is smart will just assault the unit with a power weapon like a power fist or power claw and tear that 381+ point unit apart. Their 12" range weapon you will be lucky to fire since the majority of the time they will be assaulted before they get a chance to use it.

That being said sometimes fielding things based on looks is just too tempting. Remember that 10 Wraithguard with spirit seer is actually a troop choice.

Pointers:

- Eldrich storm is aweful, take fortune and find the points for at least Runes of Warding
- Never take Defender Guardians with anything less then Scatter laser (and usually only take scatter laser) as the 24" range will mean the guardians are not getting shots off that they could be while getting in a 24" danger zone to fire that cannon. Warlock with Embolden is your friend on that Ldr8 unit.
- Take either enhance or conceal on those spiritseers. Enhance will help turn wraithguard from crappy in CC to sub-par in CC while conceal will keep the anti-3+ armor in check.
- Wraithlord, never never never take S Catapults. 2 Flamers have about the same range, don't count on BS, ignore cover, and will most likely hit way more then 2 people meaning they are way more effective.
- Prisms, the cannon is unnecessary. Your Prism beam is 60", there is no reason you should be within 24" and if the Prism in Weapon destroyed you should be using the tank for contesting/tank shocking/ramming.

Suggestion:
- Cut down to two squads of wraithguard to fit your theme. Take eldrad, Avatar, and 3 wraithlords. At this point you wil have so many high Toughness targets it will make it rough for your opponent to take them all down. Once again though I would not recommend the list for competitive play unless your local area is not running a lot of meltas, IG high str pieplates, Tzeench s8/flammers spam, and power fist weapons.

BlueDagger nailed most of what I was thinking, but I'll toss in my thoughts as well. Hopefully additional feedback will be helpful

First off, this is not a competitive list. You don't have nearly enough firepower to handle a horde army and you don't have any way of stopping a fast moving CC army. Expect either one of these lists (and there are a lot of them) to tear you apart. You also lack sufficient mobility to really take on a mech list in capturing objectives. You may do alright against mech in a kill-point game, but that's about it.

But, if you're going for a theme rather than WAAC, this army can be pretty fun. Wraithguard can look really sweet if painted up well and your entire army can look super-slick and futuristic.

Thoughts on individual choices:
Farseer: Eldrich Storm is absolutely terrible. True, it's a large blast, but it's only S3 AP-, so it can't do much against anything. At 1850, you'll want to have a pretty strong Farseer, maybe even Eldrad. But, at a minimum, I'd suggest Doom, Guide, Spirit Stones, RofWarding, RofWittnessing. You can get away with just a single Farseer with these upgrades.

Guardians: Not worth keeping them minimal. If you want to run Defenders, add a Warlock with Embolden and upgrade their gun. Preferably, run them with an Avatar to make them fearless. I'd actually recommend dropping them entirely.

Wraithguard: Here's the big issue. If you want to be "competitive", drop them all. You can sometimes get away with a single squad, in a semi-competitive list, to sit on an objective and dare your opponent to force them off. Upgrade the Warlock a bit, give him a power. I'd suggest Enhance or Destructor. Also, consider giving him a Singing Spear. Your wraithguard will be needing to shoot things to death before they can get tied up in CC, so a Spear would help. And, remember, 10 Wraithguard+Spiritseer=Troop choice!

Wraithlord: He typically isn't run in mechdar, but can work well in a foot-slogging list. Upgrade him to have a gun or two. EML+Sword or EML+Brightlance works. You'll need him providing some fire support at range. And, dual flamers is a must over catapults! Try to take 2 or 3 of these guys.

Fire Prism: A solid choice, but it competes with the Wraithlord. It's also your only mech option, so it's probably better to drop them entirely. I actually had to check to see if the Cannon was a valid upgrade, as I've never seen it. Don't bother with it. Also, I like to run Prisms naked to keep them minimal points, but some people like the holo fields. It's your choice, but I'd run both Prisms with the same loadout.

An Avatar would compliment your list very well. He'd add another MC (to the Wraithlords you should get) for your opponent to fret over what to shoot first. He also can help bail out any Wraithguard that get stuck in CC.

Your list almost makes me angry. At least throw guide on one seer and fortune on the other. Also if your fielding the wraithguard as troops I would just drop the guardians and spend the points on something better like a fast attack choice or more heavy support.

well first off...im on a totally different page than the other posters

but i frequently field a wraith list for competitions and do rather well...however you have to hug terrain and possibly do what many would call "cheesy" tactics. by that i usually have 2 full units of wraithguard that are checker boarded with eldrad attached to one squad and have fortune cast on both units so they get a 4+ cover that is re-rollable out in the open. doing that makes them even more durable.

now with your list...id drop one unit of wraithguard and the guardians. then use your other wraiths as troops instead of elites...this will leave you more room for a counter charge unit, preferably harlies with a shadow seer(?). have your farseers swap powers to doom and fortune. if you do that and decide to go with harlies, then attach a farseer to your harlies and constantly fortune them. oh and dont forget to get runes for your farseer in case you feel you need psychic def.

and for you wraithlord...give it dual flamers with brightlance and missle launcher and try to include 2 if possible. and i know the prism is an awsome unit, but by itself it will be very easy to take down as its the only piece of armor you have and isnt very effective by itself. it needs at least another to make any real difference.

also if you are worried about hordes, your wraithlord or lords can handle that easily with the dual flamers, but you have to be aggressive with them and watch out for power fists/thunder hammers/power klaws

again...to be effective with this list you have to first have fun playing the list and second...be prepared to play dirty if you feel you have a bad match up...and finally test,test,and test your list as much as possible

Thanks guys, Again this is coming from a couple that has NEVER even play a Eldar Army, I traded out a Necron Army a while back and have a LARGE amount of Eldar, roughly about 4000 points worth, so we were toying around with idea here. I think we will be doing some serious adjustment and trials, I have access to a Deathwing Army, a Kan Wall and a Nurgle army. So we will have a ton of practice runs before going full steam with it.

Units that are good in a footy list:

Avatar, Eldrad, Wraithlords, Wraithguard, Harlequins, Striking Scorpions, Rangers, Warp Spiders

To be honest, I'd much rather make an elite army than a guardian spam, if I was aiming to make a footy list. Using a combination of the above units, there's no doubt a pretty decent list somewhere in there, as long as you remember that the Avatar + Eldrad and Wraithlords are a must.

I'll echo what eveyone else has said and +1 to Eldrad.

This may sound trivial but not feeling guilty about using Mind War - because you still have two extra casts - is awesome when you are Wraithlord heavy.

To pluck the fists and klaws out of threatening squads is worth a packet to the WLs survivability and it just feels so damn good. pew pew!

lliadon wrote: but i frequently field a wraith list for competitions and do rather well...however you have to hug terrain and possibly do what many would call "cheesy" tactics. by that i usually have 2 full units of wraithguard that are checker boarded with eldrad attached to one squad and have fortune cast on both units so they get a 4+ cover that is re-rollable out in the open. doing that makes them even more durable.

Not only is this cheesy and would be shot down by any TO with a brain, but it's also illegal to move in this configuration. You can not move through your own unit's bases and you must complete the move of one of your units before you move the next, so if you are in a checkerboard configuration there is no way to move without breaking coherency and avoid "jumping over" a model of the other unit.

If you want to go this manner give the front squad conceal, one gets 5+ cover the other get 4+ cover. I can't fathom how a wraithguard list could stand up to certainmatchups such as Tzeench Demons with flamers a plentiful, 4+ invul on everything, and more s8 ap1 then you can shake a stick at.

Well, those S8 AP1 are usually 12" range anyway...and there's usually 5 of them at max. Not saying that your point isn't valid, just saying that meltas wouldn't really be my primary concern here...rather, large S10 cover-ignoring barrage pieplates would be.

I dread to think what a single Vindicator would do to a unit of Wraithguard out in the open...

BlueDagger wrote:

lliadon wrote: but i frequently field a wraith list for competitions and do rather well...however you have to hug terrain and possibly do what many would call "cheesy" tactics. by that i usually have 2 full units of wraithguard that are checker boarded with eldrad attached to one squad and have fortune cast on both units so they get a 4+ cover that is re-rollable out in the open. doing that makes them even more durable.

Not only is this cheesy and would be shot down by any TO with a brain, but it's also illegal to move in this configuration. You can not move through your own unit's bases and you must complete the move of one of your units before you move the next, so if you are in a checkerboard configuration there is no way to move without breaking coherency and avoid "jumping over" a model of the other unit.

If you want to go this manner give the front squad conceal, one gets 5+ cover the other get 4+ cover. I can't fathom how a wraithguard list could stand up to certainmatchups such as Tzeench Demons with flamers a plentiful, 4+ invul on everything, and more s8 ap1 then you can shake a stick at.

reference pg 11 first sentance of models in the way

in addition.... http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/230508.page

@OP - I really love the Wraith Heavy lists too. But you need to decide on a theme OR winning more games. Very few themed lists are actually competetive.

This is personally what I would do with the list:

Eldrad

Harlequin Troupe - Shadowseer

Wraith Guard - Spirit Seer - Conceal
Wraith Guard - Spirit Seer - Conceal

Wraith Lord EML/BL - Sword
Wraith Lord EML/BL - Sword
Wraith Lord EML/BL - Sword

Thre biggest problem with this list is the number of models. At 1850 you on get around 30 Modles which is very low.

Also target priority is very easy in this list, shoot the WraithLords with everything. After that all you need to do is get the WG in close combat and you should be fine. For this exact reason you have Harlequins, use them to bail out your WG that are stuck in CC.

One thing that the WG have going for them is the fact that they are a troop choice and extremely durable. If you fortune two squads with Eldrad, they will be even more durable. This way you get to keep the theme and you have a "fun" but not so competetive list to play.

One post made earlier said test your list, and that's what you should do, test test test. you will see the strenghts and weaknesses of each of the units and then you can make a decision after that.

I would put the 3 wraithguard units in the troop section so they count as scoring, and killoff one of the farseers and the shuriken cannon off the fire prismand add holo=fields for the second prism and add upgrades for the other farseer.