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I just got started with Warmachine.

My first game was a Mosh Pit with a Khador Player and a Skorn Player.

I used this 15 pt Army list:

WC: Capt. Haley
1. Charger
2. Centurion
3. Ironclad

I got beat cuz I wasn't aggressive enough and Khador's Vlad got too close to Haley.

I'm reassessing my Mosh Pit & Mangled Metal army list (sticking to 15 pts).
I need suggestions on which list to use.

I have the ff WC:
1. Haley
2. Lt. Caine
3. Cmdr Stryker
4. Cmdr Nemo

and I recently bought Cpt Sloan and was thinking of using her next time. Has anyone played Capt Sloan yet? Which Jacks did you join her with?

What is your playstyle?

from the list your provided Stryker is probably the easier warcaster to start with

From the lessons I learned from my first mosh pit, I tend to go shooty.. I'll probably have a jack protect my warcaster or at least obstruct LOS.

With Haley you would really benefit from the inclusion of Lancer. It brings the arc node, which also Stryker and pNemo need. From your list I would drop the Centurion and replace it with lancer or thorn.

Sloan needs ranged jacks, so you would need some defenders, chargers and hunters with her.

Metsuri wrote:With Haley you would really benefit from the inclusion of Lancer. It brings the arc node, which also Stryker and pNemo need. From your list I would drop the Centurion and replace it with lancer or thorn.

Sloan needs ranged jacks, so you would need some defenders, chargers and hunters with her.

I'm not sure how I feel about Haley in MM/T&C formats. Her spells really do not benefit Cygnar too much in the jacks/beasts only formats. Her offensive spells do not really hit hard enough to put a dent into heavy jacks/beasts...

Overall, I do like your jack selection, but maybe you can try changing the caster? From my experience, the changing warcaster/warlocks tend to have the biggest impact on the game. Haley being super fragile doesn't help, but I do agree with Metsuri, adding a lancer would help considerably as well. Scramble is an enormously annoying spell against WM, but it doesn't do much against Hordes. Against armies that bring very few jacks, like Khador, Scramble is brutal in MM.

Check out BattleCollege. It has some pretty good information, but take their advice with a grain of salt, everyone have their biases and opinions.

Link:
http://battlecollege.wikispaces.com/mkiiCygnar

You should also read Malfred's excellent articles here on Dakka.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/wiki/en/Category:Cygnar_Model_Summaries

Sloan needs shooty jacks (Defenders, Chargers, Hunters). I also feel she's a bad choice for a MM/TC setup since she is mainly shooting and isn't going to do much to a jack and isn't very mobile. Of the casters you have, pStryker is probably it. pCaine is anti-infantry and while Nemo is a awesome jack caster, he's still an old man and if you have to face Vlad and Molik Karn he's not going to get any older. Nemo also has not alot of options to leech extra focus and having Vlad in your control area means you're probably within charge range and definitely in run to lock down range.
If you're not opposed to buying new casters, Siege or epic Stryker would both rock the house in this setup.

Wouldn't be bad to start your Cygnar love affair with the awesomeness that is epic Caine either. He wasn't forged in the fires of awesome, he started the fire.

Thanks guys I appreciate the tips.

I'll go with Metsuri's tip of dropping the Centurion for a Lancer or Thorn..

For for now, I have my temporary list on iBodger:

WC: Cpt Haley
1 Hunter
1 Lancer
1 Thorn

My only concern is that all of my Jacks are light warjacks and might be pummeled by my Khador buddy.

another possible list would be:

WC: Cpt Haley
1 Charger
1 Hammersmith
1 Thorn

I dropped the other Lancer since Thorn is practically a Lancer. I need a Heavy 'Jack for muscle and WC defense.

Salisar made a good point about changing my WC.

Here's my other list:

WC: Cpt Sloan
1 Charger
1 Hunter
1 Cyclone

I chose 'Jacks with ranged weapons for Sloan's Firing squad feat and the Cyclone's Rapid Fire skill looks promising. Plus I gain Pathfinder on my 1st turn (per iBodger)

I was also warned by my Khador friend that Sloan may be useless in MM or Mosh Pit. But my Skorne buddy said that Sloan hits harder than Caine so we'll see.

I'll think of a list with Stryker as the WC tonight.

What do you guys think of my new lists?

dunce002917 wrote:My only concern is that all of my Jacks are light warjacks and might be pummeled by my Khador buddy.
I dropped the other Lancer since Thorn is practically a Lancer. I need a Heavy 'Jack for muscle and WC defense.

I think already listed the reasons why the second list is better than the first. For the Sloan list I would substitute the Cyclone with Defender. As most of the targets in mangled metal are going to ignore the POW 12s from cyclone and it offers very little in melee you would do better with defender. Its gun has longer range, higher POW and in addition it has nasty special effect on it's melee weapon. Sloan will hurt most casters pretty bad on the feat turn, especially when he is backed up by 2 shots from defender (and if he's on medium or large base, hunter).

Sloans problem is that she is a ranged caster with limited solutions to give line of sight to herself or her jacks. I would suggest Siege as the go to guy if you want to play the type of list you made for Sloan. He is not so pretty, but can see everywhere and has a nice feat to boot. In addition has good armor for Cygnar caster.

dunce002917 wrote:My only concern is that all of my Jacks are light warjacks and might be pummeled by my Khador buddy.
...
WC: Cpt Sloan
1 Charger
1 Hunter
1 Cyclone
...

We're getting into the meta game category, but if you know the game (MM/TC) formats and scenario (Mosh Pit), and your opponent (Khador), then you know you will facing heavy jacks.

Scenario: You will need models with staying power to stay in the Mosh Pit... Ranged, soft caster (Sloan) inside the Mosh Pit = Dead Meat, charger and hunter are awesome, but too soft to stay in the Mosh Pit and survive. Remember that scenarios like Mosh Pit do tend to favor melee armies, staying outside and shooting works, but "something" has to stay IN the Most Pit, otherwise you immediately loose at the beginning of your opponent's turn. I do agree that Siege maybe a good caster for this scenario.

Opponent & Format: MM/TC format means zero infantry, and the Cyclone is great anti-infanry jack... Its moderate POW guns will have problems hurting ARM20+ Khador jacks. Hunter will eventually take the heavy jacks apart, but a few lucky "bombards" hits and your Hunter will be hurting. The list looks good, but can be more tailored to fit the scenario and your opponent. Personally, regardless of your opponent; I think the list is too fragile for my taste...

Just my $0.02.

dunce002917 wrote:
I was also warned by my Khador friend that Sloan may be useless in MM or Mosh Pit. But my Skorne buddy said that Sloan hits harder than Caine so we'll see.

Entirely incorrect. Assuming both have Squire and Reinholdt (and no reason to not assume this since both need the gobber and both gobble focus), he has a max of two shots per turn (3 on the feat) and on average will do 5 more damage (2 from weapon differences, 3 average for weapon master) than Caine per shot. However since Caine has a rate of fire of YES, he will outdamage her every round since he is firing off around 9 shots per turn and passes her normal max average output of 49 after 3 shots. True, Sloan can assassinate very well but she's a statue on the field. eCaine will wreck the whole army by himself cause he's bored and hung over and you aren't going catch him unless he wants to get caught.

Same is true for pCaine. He gets 5 shots per turn in that scenario and YES on the feat turn. It's not as bad of a drubbing that she will take but pCaine will still outdo her.

12thRonin wrote:Entirely incorrect. Assuming both have Squire and Reinholdt (and no reason to not assume this since both need the gobber and both gobble focus), he has a max of two shots per turn (3 on the feat) and on average will do 5 more damage (2 from weapon differences, 3 average for weapon master) than Caine per shot. However since Caine has a rate of fire of YES, he will outdamage her every round since he is firing off around 9 shots per turn and passes her normal max average output of 49 after 3 shots. True, Sloan can assassinate very well but she's a statue on the field. eCaine will wreck the whole army by himself cause he's bored and hung over and you aren't going catch him unless he wants to get caught.

Hrmm, I think he was playing in the MM/TC format, so no Squire or Reinholdt. I don't know much about MK2, but it sounds like eCaine is better on all fronts, what does Sloan bring the the party?

Flavor?
And another Female caster to balance things out for the male-centric Cygnar

Stryker, Ol'Rowdy, a Lancer and a Hunter make for a good combo. Stryker can earthquake things, bleeding focus from casters for Shake Off, can can also disrupt with his pistol. His Feat makes it good for his jacks to be in the Mosh Pit, and Rowdy is a solid jack all around.

Or you can take Epic Nemo and as many Ironclads as you can fit into the list.

Sanctjud wrote:Flavor?
And another Female caster to balance things out for the male-centric Cygnar

that is not fair..... only cryx have more than two female WC, but then again it's cryx, this is probably under dirty cryx trick
then again there's legion

Cygnar
Haley
Sloan
Menoth
Harbinger
Feora
Khador
Zerkova
Sorcha
RoS
Kaelyssa
Ravyn
MERCS
Ashlynn
Fiona

see? two female each
Cryx have
Montenebra
Skarre
Deneghra
Garhglast x3

which mean you had six women models as WC, then again there's legion

@Retrias
Well, Cygnar only had one female caster before Sloan...that was what I was pointing at.

So... 1 less than all other WM factions before she strolled into town.

As for cryx, it's not a trick, it's all about Skarre's great rack.... attracts the ladies too.

Um, Khador has Three....the Old Witch is female....

Salisar wrote:Hrmm, I think he was playing in the MM/TC format, so no Squire or Reinholdt. I don't know much about MK2, but it sounds like eCaine is better on all fronts, what does Sloan bring the the party?

True, I forgot about it being MM/TC. That makes Sloan even worse for it. She has weapon master at range and Refuge. And she's a statue.

pCaine might not do as well against Hordes, but he's still right decent against WM. eCaine on the other hand shoots bullets made from Chuck Norris' poo.

My 15 point MM list for captian sloan is pretty effective even without rienholdt

Sloan +6
Defender
hunter
hunter

IMO, Thorn is too many points for small games. My personal preference is to go:

pNemo
Stormclad
Ironclad
Charger

Personally, I think Thorn is too many points for any game. 2 points can go along way toward something besides a faster Lancer.

From my experience, sloan isnt very good, at all. Her feat is a bad version of haley's and she doesnt any defensive ability what so ever. She does hit hard though, as her gun is weapon mastered.

dunce002917 wrote:I just got started with Warmachine.

My first game was a Mosh Pit with a Khador Player and a Skorn Player.

I used this 15 pt Army list:

WC: Capt. Haley
1. Charger
2. Centurion
3. Ironclad

I got beat cuz I wasn't aggressive enough and Khador's Vlad got too close to Haley.

You got more or less the right jacks for a Mosh Pit, but the wrong caster. Haley is a ranged caster, what ranges do you expect to be in in a mosh pit?

Take Stryker and you will do a lot better.

Sloan seems like she can be nasty with a lot of ranged 'jacks at her disposal. But for small in your face fights Siege seems to bring a whole lot of ugly to the table.

I'd probably run:
Army:
Type: Duel (1 caster, 15pts)
Points: 15
Major Markus 'Siege' Brisbane (*5pts)
* Charger (4pts)
* Defender (9pts)
* Ironclad (7pts)

Use Foxhole to open a firelane to your target. Give 3 focus to the charger, 1 to the defender and blast away.

Yes, siege is a very solid caster for 15pts. my buddy only plays siege at 15pts and he is very good. Feat + double boost defender shot can one-hit-kill alot of casters.

The above list is very solid, it really gives you everything you need with siege since he can remove stealth and grant AOE attacks to the charger/defender. Plus, siege has his own decent strength aoe shot...that he doesnt need LOS for. Def. a nasty list.