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I played in a tournament last weekend using my two Retribution lists: Kaelyssa for 1 and Rahn for 2. I found that list one was great, but it was the Tier 2 list for Kaelyssa and didn't represent my own thought, etc. No worries, it was good for me to learn with. The Rahn list was interesting, and failed horribly due to grievous mistakes on my part. I need to learn it's OK to not advance your caster into the control area of the other caster. lol

So here's the list:
Adeptis Rahn
Pheonix
Hydra
House Shyeel Mages
House Shyeel Mages
Mage Hunter Strike Force (smaller)
Mage Hunter Commander
Mage hunter Assassin
Nayl (maybe?)

I think that basically covers the "idea" of that list, it was a 35 point list and I think that's what I ended up fielding... minus Nayl if that's too many points. I was up against E Hailey so I needed Telekinesis to offset her ridiculous telekinesis... at least that was the theory.

I lost because I advanced towards the objective with a Shyeel unit, Rahn, Phoenix, and Hydra. My assassins and mage hunters were off flanking the Cygnar infantry and light jacks. When E Hailey used her telekinesis to move my phoenix out of the way and re-face it, the heavy jack simply charged Rahn and smeared him all over the place.

I know what went wrong in the game, and how I could have prevented it... but what I'm struggling with is how to adjust my list to make it more suitable for a fight with E Hailey and a good Cygnar force. It may seem simple to some, but my strategy for tournaments which allow 2 or more lists is to build 2 lists which do a specific task each, then pick the list to play once the objective and opponent are declared. (Steamroller rules).

Can anyone offer some feedback on that list up there? Maybe suggest some alternatives for a better build?

Thanks!

I have only seen ret a couple of times, but they seem to have some of the best solo models in the game, ghost sniper immediately comes to mind. IMO the only heavy jack they have that is worth while is the manticore, it hits extremely hard while being low cost. The other two are good, but they are expensive and lose everything that makes them decent if they lose their generator. I would put in a couple chimeras into the list, they are extremely mobile and pretty tough to hit if you put some focus on them. PLUS, they are nearly just as tough as ret's heavies, but harder to hit.

Also: the Ret halbrediers are some of the best in the game. They are tough and have a ton of good abilities that I wish my IFPs had, and they are only 4/6 points.

I run a chimera, griffon, halbrediers + UA, and a few other things in my 15pt kaelyssa list that I want to try out.

That list will have some issues taking out Khador level heavies. If he presses the attack you'll have an issue there, especially if they use one of Khador's tricks to send

However, you can use Rahn and the mages to push and pull them around to get the best angle on the caster. Likewise, against Haley, you can pull stuff towards your forces and out of range of her control area based abilities.

Drop the hydra for a chimera or a manticore and spend the points on something else. For Rahn, you want cheap and mobile arc nodes that you can afford to lose, this way you can take the risk and use Rahn's awesome spell list, while Rahn stays safely back with his 16" control area.

Vertrucio wrote:That list will have some issues taking out Khador level heavies. If he presses the attack you'll have an issue there, especially if they use one of Khador's tricks to send

However, you can use Rahn and the mages to push and pull them around to get the best angle on the caster. Likewise, against Haley, you can pull stuff towards your forces and out of range of her control area based abilities.

Drop the hydra for a chimera or a manticore and spend the points on something else. For Rahn, you want cheap and mobile arc nodes that you can afford to lose, this way you can take the risk and use Rahn's awesome spell list, while Rahn stays safely back with his 16" control area.

There's also the aggressive Phoenix protected and repaired by Arcanists list, but
even then I'm guessing some kind of frontline is necessary to forestall getting
swarmed (though Combustion is a nice solution to this)

I really have to warn players about Ret jacks.

They're only aggressive in that they will almost always have some way to attack, either with ranged fire or decent melee ability.

However, if you send them forward aggressively, they're no tougher than a cygnar jack and they will get focus fired down very quickly. That's not how you want to use your ret jacks. Instead, on the turn where most armies want to charge in and slug it out, hold back in concealment or cover and shoot at the enemy from just out of charge range again.

The pheonix looks like a powerful beat stick slugger type jack, but in reality, it's a 10 point model with no more survivability than a 7 point Ironclad. Sure, it can heal up d6 shield points every turn, but if it's too far forward, one good hit takes out all the shield boxes, the next good hit will start disabling systems. Most likely they'll just gun for it to waste it completely.

Also, Arcanists can be killed very easily and are just solos, don't rely on them for repairs at the front line. I use them mainly for a bit of focus management and concentrated power.

A great use of the pheonix is actually after the front lines have clashed. That's when you move up and combust (remember, you can't charge and combust) then use the remaining 3 focus for extra attacks against jacks in range.

Rahn has ways to protect the pheonix, such as polarity shield and telekinesis to bring it back, but there's always shooting.

Once the shield falls, Myrmidon systems start dropping quickly in rapid succession. It's no uncommon to lose 2 systems, such as that valuable generator and arc node to 1-2 hits. Arcanists have to get into base to base to fix a jack, meaning that if you really want to repair something that's in combat (engaged) you'll have to park the arcanist 5" away on the previous turn. That close to the front means dead arcanists.

Agreed: Ret Jacks are good at taking incidental damage, but can not take a beating. Honestly, the jacks are the weak link in the Ret Army, as their troops and solos are so solid.

Personally, I'd only ever use the Phoenix, Griffon and Chimera.

We run a similar Rahn list except I don't use a MHSF but two MHA's, Narn, and two Phoenix. If you can find a point, I highly recommend it because Narn is way better than Nayl. Nayl needs to die to get his major power off while Narn can just beat them to death while ignoring any buffs and overpowered fields they may have.

As a whole, I would not engage any Khador heavy and would CC them with mittens or Rahn saying "I'm a Jedi!!!!" Split one from the herd where you can drop it reliably in one turn, maybe. I'll also use them as bait to get the bad guy to overcommit. Like about everything else the Ret has, it's a glass cannon.

General advice for Rahn:

Ret casters don't like multiple heavies and Rahn is no exception, he'd rather be TK spamming than wasting focus on jacks. He does like to have a Chimera around so he has a disposable arc node that he can use to go after key models without sacrificing. Arcanist are just a focus to run and +2 to melee damage rolls, don't fool yourself into thinking they'll ever fix anything (I've had an arcanist try to fix jacks 3 times in the dozens of games I've used them and succeed once), they still don't help you operate multiple jacks, but they do a good job babysitting the one you have until its services are needed.

Rahn has a small problem at this point. Battle mages aren't a great unit when it's not his feat turn, they simply don't do enough to carry the army. Even on the feat turn, they should really be assassinating and not blasting random models. A better idea than running lots of battle mages is running a single unit for the feat and spending other unit points in something that starts with Dawnguard (either of the two infantry units are solid). I use the MHSF with Rahn in larger games (50pts), but in smaller games the priority is the get hitting power into the list. Rahn's biggest problem is a caster who just pilots their army via arc nodes which makes the fight one of Battle Mages vs. real units (hint: battle mages wont win)

The only time Narn or Nayl should ever find a spot in the list is if you're already full on Mage Hunter Assassins. They threat further and with a Rahn list's ability to knock down targets, their big problem of hitting is mitigated and their damage output vs. casters is the highest of anything in the army for their points.

I know what went wrong in the game, and how I could have prevented it... but what I'm struggling with is how to adjust my list to make it more suitable for a fight with E Hailey and a good Cygnar force.

If you want to fight eHaley, you've got the wrong caster, Ravyn is the Ret caster for fighting against Cygnar.