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I want to run an army fluff idea by you.

Background: I'm getting back into 40K after several years retired from orkdom and figured that since I've always liked Dark Eldar now sounds like a good time to start collecting an army. Maybe I'm spoiled by how outright fun it is to be an ork player, but I enjoy the game so much more when my army has that cockiness of spirit that only a good warcry can bring out. "Iron Within, Iron Without" ... "WAAAAAGH" ... "For the emperor!" ... and so on. Dark Eldar have nothing like that.

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Enter Khorne.

Dark Eldar, despite being everything the Great Enemy embodies, almost universally despise her (Eldar refer to Slaanesh in the feminine). This makes sense, as the Queen of Excess' constant drain on their souls is always pulling the strings in their lives.

The Cult of the Taken Skull has forged an unholy alliance with the Lord of Blood. Thinking it better to choose your damnation than have it thrust upon you, this warband has sworn their lives to the collection of heads to strengthen the war god. In the short term, Khorne guards their souls from the Enemy so long as enough skulls are claimed in battle.

So as not to bestow any power to She Who Thirsts, the Cult of the Taken Skull has modified some of their equipment. Rather than play off crippling neurological damage, the cult's agonisers are blessed by the blood god to temporarily increase the wielder's strength to always match her foe, so as to ensure a martial fairness in battle. In exchange for swearing off the hedonistic enhancement of combat drugs, lord Khorne grants his wyches small mutations, changing them at whim to watch them adapt to new methods of combat and consistently remind them that they are his servants.

In the long term, the cult hopes that eventually they will win enough power to Khorne that he will be able to cripple his rival to the point where she cannot afford to maintain her hold on the Dark Eldar's souls.

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Does this sound believable? Does it fit in with the established lore of the Warhammer 40,000 universe in a way that is consistent?

I would have to say it is improbable but definately not impossible considering the idea of a she god sucking on your soul all the time would be enough to drive some Eldar to do some desperate things. Turning to chaos would be a desperate thing for Eldar to do.

But who knows what will happen with the Dark Eldar in the upcoming highly anticipated codex which I so desperateley want to get my hands on. Frankly I think by the tiny bit of new fluff the Incubi are treading dangerously along the lines of Khornate warriors. They are highly disciplined and martially skilled, they need to be to protect their Archon. But it also mentions that they have an intense need to kill, often and thoroughly but it doesnt sound like they do it for fun, they seem to kill for the sake of killing.

Anywho like I said, improbable but not impossible, could be quite interesting and at least you went for a plausible god rather then say Nurgle. I just cant see Dark Eldar worshipping Nurgle in anyway.....their slaves on the otherhand.........

Good luck anyways.

The Dark Eldar Codex doesn't support Chaos Eldar at all. Calling daemons while living in the webway is no good idea. BTW DE need to get as much strength from pain as possible from enemies to survive, which is against the will of Khorne who just wants moar skullz.

Kroothawk wrote:The Dark Eldar Codex doesn't support Chaos Eldar at all. Calling daemons while living in the webway is no good idea. BTW DE need to get as much strength from pain as possible from enemies to survive, which is against the will of Khorne who just wants moar skullz.

All valid points. But they don't summon daemons (I'm adhering strictly to codex rules) and the whole point of worshipping Khorne is to avoid needing to gain strength from pain. The amount they need to halt the affects of aging, unrelated to Slaanesh's soul leeching, would be cleaned from what pain enemies do experience during battle.

I guess it could be possible, but by worshiping Khorne you risk grabbing his attention, which might be a good idea with the whole Daemon thing. Although, Khorne would do whatever he could to poke one in the eye of Slaanesh so possibly he could be a protector kind of guy as they are favoured. But then Khorne doesn't like the weak so ... maybe not.

The one case of eldar falling to chaos is a craftworld devoting itself to tzeench so that in exchange for the eldars supperior knowledge on the galaxy tzeench would stop the life drain of slaanesh.

BUT in the end tzeench being the great deciever he is betrayed the farseer/sorcerer leading the craftowrld and gave all there souls to slaanesh.

this was the theme for a campaign at a Games Day in canada.

So its not impossible for eldar to turn to the other chaos gods in desperation, but in all likely hood its not going to end well.

AND if ur after elves that jump and dancy slash into battle crying "BLoooood for the blooood god" in there lil high pitched elf shreeks..... I just dont see dark eldar doing it but hey to each his own. lol

Why not just make them utterly devoted to their war god the bloody handed Khaine, as many people theorize he's an extension of Khorn anway. I don't have my codex with me at work so i don't remember the exact wording of the following but one of the chants to the Khaine was something like this (I know it's not exactly right but something along these lines.) Hell even make your own version of it.

War Calls, Anger Wakes, Blood Runs

Just don't try cutting off his head like Skarbrand did. You may end up in a wierd place, lol, i like it, throws in a new variable in I'd be willing to play them. You should start up your own codex.

I like the idea. It's easy enough to get around the "no daemons in the webway" thing. Just have this particular cult leave Commoragh because the other Dark Eldar don't like having Chaos Worshipers about, and or because Khorne told them that the place smells to much like Slaanesh, and to get out. You can have them settle on a planet with several webway portals (better if the slaughtered an existing exodite population to do so), or on a stolen craftworld.

At the very least, you could have beast masters taking Khornate beasts.

Laughing God wrote:The one case of eldar falling to chaos is a craftworld devoting itself to tzeench so that in exchange for the eldars supperior knowledge on the galaxy tzeench would stop the life drain of slaanesh.
BUT in the end tzeench being the great deciever he is betrayed the farseer/sorcerer leading the craftowrld and gave all there souls to slaanesh.
this was the theme for a campaign at a Games Day in canada.
So its not impossible for eldar to turn to the other chaos gods in desperation, but in all likely hood its not going to end well.
l

This just proves that the Canadian campaign organizers have no idea and don't care about Eldar background. The only Eldar thought to possibly have been corruped by Chaos, Arhra, now turned out to be an uncorrupted Dark Eldar.

El-dred wrote:Why not just make them utterly devoted to their war god the bloody handed Khaine, as many people theorize he's an extension of Khorn anway.

Khaine fought Khorn and lost, resulting in the end in all the shards turning into Avatars.

Commander Endova wrote:I like the idea. It's easy enough to get around the "no daemons in the webway" thing. Just have this particular cult leave Commoragh because the other Dark Eldar don't like having Chaos Worshipers about, and or because Khorne told them that the place smells to much like Slaanesh, and to get out. You can have them settle on a planet with several webway portals (better if the slaughtered an existing exodite population to do so), or on a stolen craftworld.
At the very least, you could have beast masters taking Khornate beasts.

The Dark Eldar Codex is all about Eldar living in the webway. A cattle breeding society living on a planet is something completely different. E.g. no strength from pain, no quick assaults, etc. BTW worshipping Khorne has no effect on the soul leech.

Kroothawk wrote:

El-dred wrote:Why not just make them utterly devoted to their war god the bloody handed Khaine, as many people theorize he's an extension of Khorn anway.

Khaine fought Khorn and lost, resulting in the end in all the shards turning into Avatars.

Actually it was his battle with slaanesh that got him ripped into lil pieces. And there is no fluff saying khorn is khaine. Yes they are both gods of war and murder, but in a very different context.

You really dont like this idea do you Kroothawk? lol

I'm not saying its impossible and dont do it. Most people really dont give a about the fluff behind ur army anyway just as long as its legal to play and the models look decent, so have fun with it.

Kroothawk wrote:The Dark Eldar Codex is all about Eldar living in the webway. A cattle breeding society living on a planet is something completely different. E.g. no strength from pain, no quick assaults, etc.

Nothing inherent to the webway causes the effects of pain tokens. But the fluff of pain tokens is swapped out for a more Khornate version (skull tokens?).

When the Cult of the Taken Skull destroys their foes in glorious combat, Khorne deems them worthy and grants them resilience to continue their fury. The second time they do it, great Khorne plants the seeds of bloodlust to encourage them to lead the assault into even greater battle.

Kroothawk wrote:BTW worshipping Khorne has no effect on the soul leech.

40K fluff is, and has always been so far as I can tell, innocent until proven guilty. Why couldn't Khorne plant his massive, cloven hoof in the way of Slaanesh's reach for their souls? Slaanesh knows that she hasn't yet the power to challenge mighty Khorne, even knowing that Khorne holds some preference for this wych cult might be enough to get her to back off... for now.

Oh, and in regards to the Khaine discussion, Khaine doesn't represent a pathetic and probably foolishly futile attempt to avoid the Great Enemy's soul drain. Khaine was already defeated once by Slaanesh and still has never recovered. Khorne represents a real challenge, and his simplistic nature and straightforward demands present much less of a threat of betrayal than Tzeentch.

Honestly, if you're trusting TZEENTCH to keep his word, you deserve any conesequences!

i like it, seems very probibal

honestly i think this idea has some merit, there are fluff mentions of chaos eldar so i wont heap the kind of scorn on this concept that i would on one of those asshats who always tries to shoehorn female space marines into the fluff.

that said however there are a few problems with it, for starters why would khorne care enough to intervene? I'm just not buying the stick it to slannesh thing. when khorne wants to dick someone he kicks their teeth in himself, he doesn't craftily steal their favorite toys, like one of the other posters said, thats more tzeench's style. overall i think you would be changing the theme of the dark eldar too much to stick with the same codex/models.

a better idea imho would be to run a khorne worshiping renegade incubus as a chaos lord in a CSM or latd themed guard army.

I think it could work itd just take a bit of work.

Laughing God wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

El-dred wrote:Why not just make them utterly devoted to their war god the bloody handed Khaine, as many people theorize he's an extension of Khorn anway.

Khaine fought Khorn and lost, resulting in the end in all the shards turning into Avatars.

Actually it was his battle with slaanesh that got him ripped into lil pieces. And there is no fluff saying khorn is khaine. Yes they are both gods of war and murder, but in a very different context.

From WD 127

When Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Bloody Handed God of the Eldar, fought with Slaanesh the Lord of Pleasure, he was quickly overwhelmed and his energy captured by the newborn God. For the Bloody Handed God was as much a part of Slaanesh as of Khorne - being a product of that part of the Eldar nature which finds gratification in murder and pleasure in bloody violence. Khorne the Blood God, the Patron of War, Murder and Battle, roared with rage to discover one of his own taken from him in this way. Then Khorne and Slaanesh clashed headlong, the Blood God fighting to recover the portion of his power that had been robbed from him, Slaanesh driven by his uncontrollable hunger to consume everything in his path. The Bloody Handed God of the Eldar was tossed this way and that, at first grasped by Slaanesh, then tugged back into the compass of Khorne.

Eventually the rage of the Blood God and the passion of the Lord of Pleasure were exhausted, and the boundaries between them were established. Like a leaf in the eye of a hurricane, Kaela Mensha Khaine fell among the calm, down through the Realm of Chaos and into the material universe. As he entered the material universe he divided into many shards of energy, scattering his power so that neither Khorne or Slaanesh could ever find him again. Each shard entered the body of an Eldar, filling the body with his own mind, possessing it, so that it became a virtually indestructible blood-lusting murderer - the material manifestation of the Bloody Handed God. These are the Avatars of the Bloody Handed God.

Also a hint that Khaine could be part of Khorne? I think there was also mentioned in Slaves to Darkness or maybe the Liber Chaotica that Khaine is possibly an aspect of the Blood God.

Nice.

Pilau Rice wrote:

Laughing God wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:

El-dred wrote:Why not just make them utterly devoted to their war god the bloody handed Khaine, as many people theorize he's an extension of Khorn anway.

Khaine fought Khorn and lost, resulting in the end in all the shards turning into Avatars.

Actually it was his battle with slaanesh that got him ripped into lil pieces. And there is no fluff saying khorn is khaine. Yes they are both gods of war and murder, but in a very different context.

From WD 127

When Kaela Mensha Khaine, the Bloody Handed God of the Eldar, fought with Slaanesh the Lord of Pleasure, he was quickly overwhelmed and his energy captured by the newborn God. For the Bloody Handed God was as much a part of Slaanesh as of Khorne - being a product of that part of the Eldar nature which finds gratification in murder and pleasure in bloody violence. Khorne the Blood God, the Patron of War, Murder and Battle, roared with rage to discover one of his own taken from him in this way. Then Khorne and Slaanesh clashed headlong, the Blood God fighting to recover the portion of his power that had been robbed from him, Slaanesh driven by his uncontrollable hunger to consume everything in his path. The Bloody Handed God of the Eldar was tossed this way and that, at first grasped by Slaanesh, then tugged back into the compass of Khorne.

Eventually the rage of the Blood God and the passion of the Lord of Pleasure were exhausted, and the boundaries between them were established. Like a leaf in the eye of a hurricane, Kaela Mensha Khaine fell among the calm, down through the Realm of Chaos and into the material universe. As he entered the material universe he divided into many shards of energy, scattering his power so that neither Khorne or Slaanesh could ever find him again. Each shard entered the body of an Eldar, filling the body with his own mind, possessing it, so that it became a virtually indestructible blood-lusting murderer - the material manifestation of the Bloody Handed God. These are the Avatars of the Bloody Handed God.

Also a hint that Khaine could be part of Khorne? I think there was also mentioned in Slaves to Darkness or maybe the Liber Chaotica that Khaine is possibly an aspect of the Blood God.

Point to you good man. Not a white dwarf reader so id have never found that. lol makes sense though. Off topic but just something to think about but does that mean that the other eldar gods are just extensions of the 4 ruinous powers as well? bum bum BUUUUUMMMM!

Maledictus wrote:that said however there are a few problems with it, for starters why would khorne care enough to intervene? I'm just not buying the stick it to slannesh thing. when khorne wants to dick someone he kicks their teeth in himself, he doesn't craftily steal their favorite toys, like one of the other posters said, thats more tzeench's style. overall i think you would be changing the theme of the dark eldar too much to stick with the same codex/models.

He'd do it for the same reason he'd grant some power to a group of humans who volunteered to collect skulls in his name, no more, no less.

If Dark Eldar worship Kaela Mensha Khaine like the Craftworld Eldar do, then Erikmans sect could be a rogue element that recognise that Khaine is Khorne?

It would be like the AdMech having the Cult of the Dragon.

How they would fit in with other Dark Eldar though I don't know, maybe they would be hunted for risking the safety of Cammorragh?

Laughing God wrote:Off topic but just something to think about but does that mean that the other eldar gods are just extensions of the 4 ruinous powers as well? bum bum BUUUUUMMMM!

Who knows, all warp entities might be related in some way as they are all part of the warp in some form or the other.

Erikman wrote:

Maledictus wrote:that said however there are a few problems with it, for starters why would khorne care enough to intervene? I'm just not buying the stick it to slannesh thing. when khorne wants to dick someone he kicks their teeth in himself, he doesn't craftily steal their favorite toys, like one of the other posters said, thats more tzeench's style. overall i think you would be changing the theme of the dark eldar too much to stick with the same codex/models.

He'd do it for the same reason he'd grant some power to a group of humans who volunteered to collect skulls in his name, no more, no less.

Except that he doesn't. Khorne offers no special protection to his other followers, their deaths sate him just as much as those of his enemies, which brings me back to my point, Khorne does not make deals. soul damning faustian pacts are for nurgle and tzeench. the followers of khorne kill because they enjoy it, and most of them where warriors of murderers before the began worshiping the blood god.

Example: when a marine falls to Khorne this is usually how it happens.

1. An otherwise noble warrior begins enjoy battle or develop an overactive lust for glory.

2. He actually begins to enjoy the act of killing.

3. Khorne takes notice, begins egging the marine on, nudging him toward new opportunities for carnage.

4. Lust for slaughter overrides loyalty to his chapter, the imperium, etc; he kills a few old comrades and goes renegade.

5. Congratulations sir you are now a berzerker!

This is very different from how say Nurgle recruits.

1. Group of pious marines become trapped on a world/ship overrun by one of Nurgle's plagues.

2. After a period of moths/years they are all infected, watching their comrade drop like flies, no hope of rescue, the old "emperor protects" adage seems to ring hollow.

3. A few marines remain, situation seems hopeless nothing to look forward to but an ignominious, pointless death.

4. Nurgle steps in, make his usual offer "serve me and i will end your pain, save you from death etc"

5. Their resolve gone, the marines give in and accept papa Nurgle's offer.

6. Congratulations sir you are now a plague marine!

The deal you are proposing between the DE and Khorne is Nurgle through and through. To simplify "serve me and i can offer you a way out of an otherwise hopeless situation".

Im not saying scrap the idea altogether, just find some way to make it more in line with how Khorne operates. a single powerful individual who already has little to fear from slannesh might turn to khorne for the hell of it but a group would never turn to him out of desperation. desperation is weakness and Khorne is all about strength.

Maledictus wrote:

Erikman wrote:

Maledictus wrote:that said however there are a few problems with it, for starters why would khorne care enough to intervene? I'm just not buying the stick it to slannesh thing. when khorne wants to dick someone he kicks their teeth in himself, he doesn't craftily steal their favorite toys, like one of the other posters said, thats more tzeench's style. overall i think you would be changing the theme of the dark eldar too much to stick with the same codex/models.

He'd do it for the same reason he'd grant some power to a group of humans who volunteered to collect skulls in his name, no more, no less.

Except that he doesn't. Khorne offers no special protection to his other followers, their deaths sate him just as much as those of his enemies, which brings me back to my point, Khorne does not make deals. soul damning faustian pacts are for nurgle and tzeench. the followers of khorne kill because they enjoy it, and most of them where warriors of murderers before the began worshiping the blood god.

It's important to remember that there are exceptions. He resurrected Kharn and Valkia (from WHFB) because of their skill as warriors. He does care about some of his followers, but only because they're good at killing stuff and he'd be missing out if they were dead. Scyla Anfingrimm (a Chaos warrior in WHFB) was repeatedly blessed by Khorne, eventually mutating into a Spawn. He's still a deadly fighter, but he lost his marbles a long time ago and is more like a tame beast than a man.

Cheese Elemental wrote:
It's important to remember that there are exceptions. He resurrected Kharn and Valkia (from WHFB) because of their skill as warriors. He does care about some of his followers, but only because they're good at killing stuff and he'd be missing out if they were dead. Scyla Anfingrimm (a Chaos warrior in WHFB) was repeatedly blessed by Khorne, eventually mutating into a Spawn. He's still a deadly fighter, but he lost his marbles a long time ago and is more like a tame beast than a man.

good point, however did kharn ask to be brought back? did he die thinking "oh crap, oh crap, please khorne get me out of this" short answer, no. khorne wanted his favorite badass back so he brought him back. would it have mattered if kharn wanted to die? again, no. khorne doesn't wheedle and deal, he does what he wants with his minions weather they like it or not and then discards them when he's done.

besides are all these dark eldar bringing in the same kind of skull harvest kharn or valkia do? probably not, even if he bothered with them at all he wouldn't go to the trouble of bringing them back the life much less duking it out with another god for possession of their puny souls.

The Khorne Liber Chaotica book touches on the idea that Khaine may in fact be Khorne, or possibly a more specific aspect of Khorne (murder as opposed to slaughter).