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As the title say!
its a cool model and i know some people are against using it, anyway how can you maximize or utilize it if ever you gonna field 1.
and i really wanna field. though i don't know any good tactic for it.

oh and no point limit

I just played against a guy who used one at 2250, he put a melee lord on top and gave him a 2+ rerollable armor save with a 4+ wardsave and a great weapon. It was a pretty effective combo. With the dragon itself having a 4+ armor save and T6, there's not many ways of hurting it. He sent it against my block of 30 corsairs with lvl 2 caster in it, and he wiped the unit after about 4 rounds of combat (granted, my caster blowing up killing 6 of the last 8 corsairs didn't help). The corsairs eventually paper cutted the dragon to death, but the general never died, he's a pretty resilient model. I'd use him on a charge with a spear elves or sea guard unit, as their static combat rez can help get rid of steadfast and add a little to the fight. The 18" LD bubble is nice.

greenbay924 wrote: I'd use him on a charge with a spear elves or sea guard unit, as their static combat rez can help get rid of steadfast and add a little to the fight. The 18" LD bubble is nice.

I agree with this. Use his flying moves to get into combat where he can help in the flank. If you can negate the support attacks hitting the spearmen you can greatly increase their survivability.

whatdragon did he use sun,moon or star?

The middle one, moon I think.

The best cannon/stonethrower blocker a monster can get is the Pha's Protection spell, however lore of light isn't all that usefull to an army that already has ASF and I6+. The best way to get the dragon to combat is to have a hero level mage with the item that lets him choose his spells so you can keep the beast safe(ish), then again that further increases the cost of getting use out of that monster. Overall it might be a fun thing to do. I however don't play HE and my lizardmen can usually stack lore of light and lore of heavens to keep gunlines in check.

Well, big expensive baddies generally are a burden (even though the guy who won Da Grand Waaagh this year rocked the unkillable Delf lord on dragon). It's just a lot of points in one model, and there's so many ways to gib it from gunlines, magic, paper cuts, etc...

A huge flying monster is very hard to ignore... but sometimes that is the point. If the opponent is shooting at the dragon, he won't be shooting at anyone else. Play smart and form your tactics around the fact that this beastie will be greatly effective whether he gets into combat or not. I play a HE army with 2 dragons still and the looks on my opponents faces are well worth it, especially when they think it was a stupid tactic because of the new 8th edition rules and I end up massacring them.

Bengrold Stonefist wrote:A huge flying monster is very hard to ignore... but sometimes that is the point. If the opponent is shooting at the dragon, he won't be shooting at anyone else. Play smart and form your tactics around the fact that this beastie will be greatly effective whether he gets into combat or not. I play a HE army with 2 dragons still and the looks on my opponents faces are well worth it, especially when they think it was a stupid tactic because of the new 8th edition rules and I end up massacring them.

yeah i was thinking of making it a diversion for my actual hammers.

is it ok to ask for your list so i could study it? quite curious. me my self is thinking adding a dragon mage

currently assembling my dragon might get another 1

Might want to get some practice playing around with the one dragon before adding another. The dragon mage is going to play pretty differently to the prince on dragon. The main problem is that mage is awfully squishy on top.

Also, a friendly reminder from someone who is not a mod:

From rule 5 for Dakka "...We strongly encourage proper punctuation, spelling, grammar and composition..."

RZ

The dragon is pretty awesome and very hard to kill with magic (except mind razor). He will punch his way through almost anything out there given a couple rounds of combat.

The biggest problem is obviously gunlines. Dwarves and empire will ruin your day killing the dragon in one turn.

With the thunder stomp and the lack of flanking bonus I tend to throw the dragon headlong into the enemy ranks. Generally I start on a flank trying to kill whatever is there to allow the rest of my army to break through. It works very well and even without supporting spearmen the dragon is a terror on wings. I have had it cut through entire temple guard units and 30 sarus warriors in two turns.
Even enemy chars are a lesser problem for the dragon as the 2+ reroll/4+ ward keeps the elf alive and the dragon is tough as nails. The biggest issue is actually unit champs stopping you from killing more then one guy for a round. This can let the enemy chose when to hold you up and really drive you nuts. Supporting spearmen champs can help salvage this problem though. Also in the help department are heroes on eagles who can take the champion challenge in stride (kinda expensive guys though and not a lot of uses).

Units to avoid when unsupported are limited to the undead and the front of GW wielding hoards (enough str5-6 attacks will kill the dragon and 50 guys is alot to go through).

Just pray you dont fold to the cannons.

Just take 3 lords on horses instead of 1 on a dragon.. Will avoid cannons and frustration and not being able to break ranks or steadfast

You have to be very careful in utilizing the Dragon, as its survivability is actually quite deceiving.

Yes, it has 4+ armour, and a T 6, but as stated, it can die to paper cuts, cannons, and magic quite easily. It really depends on the list you come up against. If you are facing off against a Gunline, you are pretty much done. It takes very unlucky rolls from your opponent to not kill the dragon. Put anecdotal evidence aside, run the numbers in your head statistically speaking, and it does not come out well for the Dragon.

The other thing is that the Dragon might eat an entire unit over the course of 3-4 rounds, but that might play into the hands of your opponent. They might WANT to tie up your Dragon for 3-4 rounds, giving them the opportunity to beat on your other units. In fact, big units of cheap troops would be a horrible situation for a Dragon to get involved in (looking at you Skaven Slaves).

So "How do you utilize it?" well that depends on the army you are fighting. If you see a large block of cheap troops, don't send your Dragon there. It will waste 2-3 turns of your high cost Dragon, earning you very little in exchange. If you see a gunline, and you do not have protection (pha's for example), get to the guns asap. With TLOS its near impossible to avoid being shot at, so fly towards them 1 turn, set yourself up for a charge + overrun if possible, and give them as little opportunity as possible to kill your Dragon.

Use the Dragon to hit the flanks of the key units your opponent is fielding. If they have a block of troops that contains the BSB or a key Wizard, hit that block in the flank. You can tie them up and keep the BSB from supporting the advancing enemy units. It very much becomes a game of baiting your opponent to chase the Dragon, and hopefully make mistakes elsewhere in the battle.

Remember though, that you are up against a thinking opponent. Dragons can be countered in this edition. They aren't point and click like they used to be. Like all things in the Warhammer game, you have to play according to whats happening on the field. You are tying up a lot of points into a unit that you cannot afford to make any mistakes with. Thats the real danger of fielding the Lord / Dragon.

Lehnsherr wrote:

The other thing is that the Dragon might eat an entire unit over the course of 3-4 rounds, but that might play into the hands of your opponent. They might WANT to tie up your Dragon for 3-4 rounds, giving them the opportunity to beat on your other units. In fact, big units of cheap troops would be a horrible situation for a Dragon to get involved in (looking at you Skaven Slaves).

Bingo, this is what I did against the High Elf player I played this last weekend. He charged him into my unit of 30 corsairs and they tied him up for 3 rounds, giving my hydras and RXBs enough time to clear out the rest of his army. By the time his general finished off the corsairs (mostly my own fault!) he was useless as the game was pretty much over.

Red_Zeke wrote:Might want to get some practice playing around with the one dragon before adding another. The dragon mage is going to play pretty differently to the prince on dragon. The main problem is that mage is awfully squishy on top.

Also, a friendly reminder from someone who is not a mod:

From rule 5 for Dakka "...We strongly encourage proper punctuation, spelling, grammar and composition..."

RZ

Wow, ever stop to think English might be the OP's 2nd language.

KidSquid wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:Might want to get some practice playing around with the one dragon before adding another. The dragon mage is going to play pretty differently to the prince on dragon. The main problem is that mage is awfully squishy on top.

Also, a friendly reminder from someone who is not a mod:

From rule 5 for Dakka "...We strongly encourage proper punctuation, spelling, grammar and composition..."

RZ

Wow, ever stop to think English might be the OP's 2nd language.

Wow, ever realise the definition of 'Friendly'. He's just trying to help him out a little..

But on topic, similar to what everyone else is saying. It's possible to use a Dragon in your army but how you play it would depend on its usefulness. Obviously you don't want to bog it down into combat unsupported but at the same time you've spent all these points on a model, you don't want it to fly around pointlessly around the table for 6 turns. If you could get it to charge a unit with say some Swordmasters you could easily destroy the unit in a heartbeat. Other option could be to have a Dragon Mage fly around the table and blast apart war machines and ranged units. Combat would be tricky with him but the dragon should be able to manage most of the hard work.

KidSquid wrote:

Red_Zeke wrote:Might want to get some practice playing around with the one dragon before adding another. The dragon mage is going to play pretty differently to the prince on dragon. The main problem is that mage is awfully squishy on top.

Also, a friendly reminder from someone who is not a mod:

From rule 5 for Dakka "...We strongly encourage proper punctuation, spelling, grammar and composition..."

RZ

Wow, ever stop to think English might be the OP's 2nd language.

sorry, my bad i usually just keep on typing and doesn't really check my grammar, when time is close or pass midnight most likely i'm half awake.
and english is my 2nd language trying my best to be fluent w/ it(written and spoken)

well back to the topic

so far after checking the points cost of the dragon.
the moon dragon is the most cost efficient choice because of the initiative while still having a big amount of attack and str

@Lehnsherr great tips!. at least now i have an idea how to prioritize the target for my dragon or how to play it seems like its more for harassing key units, initially i thought its more like a winged chariot for breaking units

Not to derail things, but-

@ KidSquid: Relax, it was a friendly reminder. I didn't insult anyone, just made a suggestion. I work in a bilingual workplace, so yes, I am aware that there are languages other than English. If you have any other issues, feel free to PM me.

@ Ravenum: No problem- just pointing out that capitalization, punctuation can make a post easier to digest and process for those who might reply.

On topic (and @ Ravenum): I would actually still think about it similar to a winged chariot- just one with greater staying power and persistent damage output. Neither can break most units single handedly, but both can be lethal in combination with another ranked unit. I'm interested in the choice of a Moon Dragon as "most efficient". I hadn't really though the initiative difference to be that significant. Can you expound a little on that?

All three suffer from having an initiative much lower than their rider- which means in a challenge, the dragon will often not get a chance to swing and stomp.

about the moon compare to star? its my personal opinion 70pts for the 1more extra str, atk, Toughness , armour sv, str 4 breath. but having your I2 means you get to hit last against most of the armies atleast if you Have I3 the dragon is on the same speed as RnF Empire/brettonia and maybe BoC. atleast the dragon could strike his attacks before getting killed incombat. then again I might be wrong(most likely), haven't tried using a dragon and i'm not really sure how tough they are against most RnF or even special units. so maybe even hitting last is a good thing T7 &+3 Sv.

but having a star dragon means i need to go beyond 2.5k pts w/o sinking too much point in him, and i'm still trying to get a hang of the rules and feel of the game with out getting overwhelmed with tactical decision because of too many units.

btw in a 2k point game Prince on a sundragon is it viable??

thanks again guys for the inputs.

The bonuses from the moon dragon to the star dragon are soooo worth the extra 70 pts. Unless that puts you over the lord allotment then take the star dragon every time.

The sundragon isnt really a great investment because it can be pincushioned by str4 shooting very easily. 5 wounds and a 5+ save isnt much. It can work but the damage output is noticeably lower and he can no longer clear high armor units out of his path with ease.