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I was thinking of taking the following list to a 2k tourney in a couple weeks. Any advice would be helpful as I've only played BA 3 times
I am unsure of the sponsons on the baal and what to do with the points if I don't take them. I'm kind of at a plus or minus 25 points area in the list building.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

Astorath

Honour guard
Meltagun x 4
Razorback w/las-plas

Elite
Furioso Dreadnought
Librarian upgrade
Wings+shield

Furioso Dreadnought
Librarian
wings+?

Sang priest w/Jump pack

Troops
Assault squad
Razorback w/H bolters

Assault squad
Plus 5 dudes
P fist
Flamer x 2

Assault squad
Plus 5 dudes
P fist
Melta x 2

Fast
Baal pred
H flamer spons

Baal pred

Predator
Lascannon sponsons

Predator
Lascannon sponsons

Since you dont have any DC, I would drop Astorath for a normal libby. Leftover Points could also net you another sang priest I think too.

Why do you need DC to use Astorath?

Well not really need but Astorath does let you take as many DC units as you want. Adding in the increased chance for red thirst isnt too worthwhile if you have enough Sang Priests

If you want to keep Astorath, I would look into a squad of Death Company to replace the Honour Guard. A 5-man squad w/Jump Packs and a few power weapons will cost less than your Honour Guard unit and if you have Astorath join them what you end up with is a WS5, S5, I5, A3 unit on the charge that re-rolls on hits AND wounds, and has Feel No Pain.

@Kenshin620: Astorath doesn't actually effect the number of DC you can field. You can still only take 1 unit of them, and that unit can be anywhere from 3-30 models.

Orblivion wrote:If you want to keep Astorath, I would look into a squad of Death Company to replace the Honour Guard. A 5-man squad w/Jump Packs a few power weapons will cost less than your Honour Guard unit and if you have Astorath join them what you end up with is a WS5, S5, I5, A3 unit on the charge that also re-rolls on hits AND wounds.

@Kenshin620: Astorath doesn't actually effect the number of DC you can field. You can still only take 1 unit of them, and that unit can be anywhere from 3-30 models.

True. Getting DC instead of HG can bring on CC pain. But the HG also bring a lot of meltas. But I suppose a PF is a good anti tank weapon for DC.

Btw check his profile section in the army list. the 0-1 limit on DC is removed

kenshin620 wrote:

Orblivion wrote:If you want to keep Astorath, I would look into a squad of Death Company to replace the Honour Guard. A 5-man squad w/Jump Packs a few power weapons will cost less than your Honour Guard unit and if you have Astorath join them what you end up with is a WS5, S5, I5, A3 unit on the charge that also re-rolls on hits AND wounds.

@Kenshin620: Astorath doesn't actually effect the number of DC you can field. You can still only take 1 unit of them, and that unit can be anywhere from 3-30 models.

True. Getting DC instead of HG can bring on CC pain. But the HG also bring a lot of meltas. But I suppose a PF is a good anti tank weapon for DC.

Btw check his profile section in the army list. the 0-1 limit on DC is removed

Wow, thank you very much for pointing that out to me. I've been using Astorath as my default HQ choice anyways, but that makes him even better.

He does indeed remove the restriction. He essentially provides slightly better stats then a reclusiarch, a special weapon, artificer armour and triples the chance of The Red Thirst. However, he does cost 65 more points. The one advantage to getting FNP and FC from the red thirst instead of a priest is that you have it 100% of the time, including after the priest dies (which most people who are smart eliminate the priests). I think Astorath is worth it.

I don't think chaplains need to be with Death Company to make them worth taking. DC are pretty terrible liability sometimes, I am not a huge fan. Re-rolling wounds is great, but with Str 5, you won't need to use that terribly often. Re-rolling hits is always worth it, especially with WS 4.

I would like to hold on to the honour guard for the melta spam they bring and the extra sang priest that can't be singled out in CC. The unit has done me pretty well as a mobile FNP dispenser out of the razorback. I was thinking of changing it to a rhino to save a few points and to be able to drop two melta shots out of the top without exposing the guard. That will reduce my long range a bit but I think it might be worth it since My game plan is basically to shove my army down my opponents throat.

Magister187 wrote:He does indeed remove the restriction. He essentially provides slightly better stats then a reclusiarch, a special weapon, artificer armour and triples the chance of The Red Thirst. However, he does cost 65 more points. The one advantage to getting FNP and FC from the red thirst instead of a priest is that you have it 100% of the time, including after the priest dies (which most people who are smart eliminate the priests). I think Astorath is worth it.

I don't think chaplains need to be with Death Company to make them worth taking. DC are pretty terrible liability sometimes, I am not a huge fan. Re-rolling wounds is great, but with Str 5, you won't need to use that terribly often. Re-rolling hits is always worth it, especially with WS 4.

I didn't mean to imply that Chaplains should always be with Death Company to justify their presence, just that in a BA list DC is the best way to use them IMO. DC has worked out pretty well for me and I use them just as I described, joined up with my HQ unit. You have their stats backwards btw, they are WS5, S4. They only get S5, I5 from Furious Charge. Regardless, re-rolls on hits and wounds certainly can't hurt.

I know, I meant the str 5 from FC. The WS 4 remark was regarding normal assault marines, who are more likely to need the assistance of a chaplain then the WS 5 DC.

I think DC are fine in a vacuum and work great in many situations, but against certain armies and against smart opponents, Rage can be exploited. The liability of DC, to me, does not justify the point expenditure nor the loss of scoring capabilities. That is just how I look at it, however.

I fielded a squad of 7 DC with lemartes vs my friend while he was playing Orks in a friendly game. They pretty much wiped out a full size mob of boys by themselves. That didn't quite make up their points though.
I would consider fielding a DC squad in a razor so I could field a DC dread, but I don't think that's where I want to go with this list.
I would like to play with a hammer DC unit in a LRC with a couple DC dreads as well, but that would have to be a large scale friendly game I think.

It is a shame you can't take Death Company dreads without Death Company, as at least they are Fleet. Pure Death Company just seems a poor use of points, unless you can also afford the Land Raider and a chaplain to lead them, in which case you could still probably field better units for the cost. /shrug

Honor Guard unit is great for its extra Chalice, but it does seem expensive. Since your normal assault marines can take Melta Guns, would dropping that unit to fill in the last assault squad and adding another Jump Priest make any sense?

To be fair, I tried to do something really dumb with my orks in that corner, but the DC did wipe them up fairly well.

Not sure why I though I could get enough killed to get them out of Hand to Hand. LOL - Poorly played.

Marines can take extra armor right? To prevent stunned?
Maybe do that to help your Razor can get to where it needs to go.

I like to take deamonic presence on my Rhino or Land Raider when I have a SC inside. Stunned transports can really mess up an CC oriented strategy.