Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey guys, a question came up the other day that I am hoping to get resolved.

In the BA codex, for every 5 terminators, one can:
-replace it's stormbolter with weapon A
-replace it's stormbolter with weapon B
-take a cyclone missile launcher

Now, can the terminator take either (A or B) and the cyclone missile launcher? Or can they only take one of the listed upgrades. The reason I ask is that it doesn't say to replace any existing weapons, so it seems they are capable of taking the upgrade independently of the first two (which for obvious reasons cannot be taken together).

Rephistorch wrote:Hey guys, a question came up the other day that I am hoping to get resolved.

In the BA codex, for every 5 terminators, one can:
-replace it's stormbolter with weapon A
-replace it's stormbolter with weapon B
-take a cyclone missile launcher

Now, can the terminator take either (A or B) and the cyclone missile launcher? Or can they only take one of the listed upgrades. The reason I ask is that it doesn't say to replace any existing weapons, so it seems they are capable of taking the upgrade independently of the first two (which for obvious reasons cannot be taken together).

As long as you have 10 terminators, yes, you can put a CML and Weapon A or Weapon B on a single model.

Why exactly you would want to though is beyond me since both cannot be fired at the same time.

Gwar! wrote:As long as you have 10 terminators, yes, you can put a CML and Weapon A or Weapon B on a single model.

Why exactly you would want to though is beyond me since both cannot be fired at the same time.

CML to pop transports, HF to cook some fools before charging?

CML for when you're >24" away, AC for when you're within 24"?

Et cetera.

Yes, but the point is, if you have a CML on your AC Termi, you can't use both. If you have your CML on your SB Termi, you can use both the CML and the AC. With both options, you also still have 4 SBs available, if you want them for some odd reason.

Fifty wrote:Yes, but the point is, if you have a CML on your AC Termi, you can't use both. If you have your CML on your SB Termi, you can use both the CML and the AC. With both options, you also still have 4 SBs available, if you want them for some odd reason.

I never said you could. Yeah, you can't use both a CML and AC in the same turn, but you still get to pick which one to use on a given turn. So if you want, you can give a single Terminator both an AC and a CML, and use the CML whilst more than 24" away from your intended target, and the AC whilst within 24" of the intended target.

Or, use the CML to pop a transport, and next turn, fry some infantry with the HF just before charging. Whatever. The point is, you have the option.

However, you are incorrect in that two different Terminators can take an AC and a CML. You can't give one Terminator a CML and one Terminator an AC. ONE Terminator out of five may take those options, not "one of five, interchangeably."

SaintHazard wrote:However, you are incorrect in that two different Terminators can take an AC and a CML. You can't give one Terminator a CML and one Terminator an AC. ONE Terminator out of five may take those options, not "one of five, interchangeably."

Huh?

No, you are wrong here!

It says "For every 5 models in the squad, one Terminator can..." so if you have 10 models, one can take a AC and one can take a CML (for example).

Lrn2read silly Sainthazzard

Unless you were saying you can't have TWO Termies with a CML and AC (so have 2 CML and 2 AC in one unit), then you would be right.

I AM CONFUSE! D:

I ken reed jusst fyne thannk yu!

Do me a favor real quick, post the exact wording of that rule? I don't have my codex on me at the moment, I could be wrong about this.

However, "One Terminator" indicates that ONE Terminator out of five can take upgrades from that subset of upgrades.

NOT "One Terminator can take X and also one Terminator can take Y and also..." etc.

So in a unit of FIVE Terminators, two cannot have upgrades, even if each only has a single upgrade.

In a unit of ten, however, absolutely. Upgrade two Terminators.

I think everyone is arguing, but actually in agreement.

With 5-9 terminators, 1 can be given a single upgrade weapon.

With 10 terminators, 2 can be given a single upgrade weapon or 1 can be given two upgrade weapons.

Anyone disagreeing with this?

Grakmar wrote:I think everyone is arguing, but actually in agreement.

With 5-9 terminators, 1 can be given a single upgrade weapon.

With 10 terminators, 2 can be given a single upgrade weapon or 1 can be given two upgrade weapons.

Anyone disagreeing with this?

I am disagreeing with the agreement of disagreeing.

I think.

As for the wording, it's there in my last post.

Gwar! wrote:I am disagreeing with the agreement of disagreeing.

I think.

As for the wording, it's there in my last post.

No, only part of it. I want the whole thing.

SaintHazard wrote:CML to pop transports, HF to cook some fools before charging?

CML for when you're >24" away, AC for when you're within 24"?

That is why you might want both in a squad, not why you'd want both on the same model. If you have a 10-man terminator squad you can have one guy with a cyclone and heavy flamer, or one guy with a cyclone and one guy with a heavy flamer. What GWAR was asking is why you would want to take one guy with both, as it reduces your firepower and makes it easier to lose both weapons.

BearersOfSalvation wrote:

SaintHazard wrote:CML to pop transports, HF to cook some fools before charging?

CML for when you're >24" away, AC for when you're within 24"?

That is why you might want both in a squad, not why you'd want both on the same model. If you have a 10-man terminator squad you can have one guy with a cyclone and heavy flamer, or one guy with a cyclone and one guy with a heavy flamer. What GWAR was asking is why you would want to take one guy with both, as it reduces your firepower and makes it easier to lose both weapons.

Because you only want to run 5 Terminators? But yes, I see his point.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:Unless you were saying you can't have TWO Termies with a CML and AC (so have 2 CML and 2 AC in one unit), then you would be right.

I AM CONFUSE! D:

I just re-read this post. It turns out my reading comprehension skills have hit another low today.

Yes, that is what I am saying.

SaintHazard wrote:Because you only want to run 5 Terminators? But yes, I see his point.

Your last post (that wasn't up when I wrote mine) clarified it, I think everyone else is operating on the 5-9 = 1 upgrade, 10-14 = 2 upgrades while you're saying you can do both upgrades in 5-men, which is why everyone is talking past each other. I'll have to check the wording for vanilla terminators, I had always assumed it was 1 upgrade per 5 but I may be swapping some arms around into the old space hulk 'incredible hall defender' configuragion.

It is 1 Upgrade per 5. So 5-9 get 1 and 10 get 2, since 10 is the max size.

Yes.

That is what I was trying to say.

Badly.

But nothing stops you from putting them both on the same model.

At the OP

Your sig is one long string of unrelated characters, it's so long it is messing up the window sizing of my browser. Could you please shorten it? Thanks.

BloodThirSTAR wrote:At the OP

Your sig is one long string of unrelated characters, it's so long it is messing up the window sizing of my browser. Could you please shorten it? Thanks.

You either have one heck of a tiny screen or are running a crap browser.

If you are running Internet Explorer, swap for the love of Russ!

BloodThirSTAR wrote:At the OP

Your sig is one long string of unrelated characters, it's so long it is messing up the window sizing of my browser. Could you please shorten it? Thanks.

Because this thread, and not PMs, is entirely the place for such things.

Gwar! wrote:

BloodThirSTAR wrote:At the OP

Your sig is one long string of unrelated characters, it's so long it is messing up the window sizing of my browser. Could you please shorten it? Thanks.

You either have one heck of a tiny screen or are running a crap browser.

If you are running Internet Explorer, swap for the love of Russ!

I don't know why, but every post on this board messes with my window size and gives me the bottom scrollbar along with the side. I have no idea why.

Running Firefox 3.6.7, maximized (not fullscreen) with 1920x1080 resolution. Nothing spills over further than the edge of my screen, but I still get the scrollbar...

I thought the wording about the number of terms versus the number of special weapons was something more like this:
1-5 1 special weapon, 6-10 2 special weapons. I don't know where it states in the rules whether the for every 5 should be read as; every whole 5 X or every 5 X or portion thereof. Your (Gwar and SaintHazard) reading would be 5-9 1 weapon and, 10 2 weapons. Please forgive me if I've misread/misinterpreted something.

Leo_the_Rat wrote:I thought the wording about the number of terms versus the number of special weapons was something more like this:
1-5 1 special weapon, 6-10 2 special weapons. I don't know where it states in the rules whether the for every 5 should be read as; every whole 5 X or every 5 X or portion thereof. Your (Gwar and SaintHazard) reading would be 5-9 1 weapon and, 10 2 weapons. Please forgive me if I've misread/misinterpreted something.

"For every 5 models in the squad, one Terminator can..."

It's one per every 5. So if you have 9 Terminators, only 1 can take a special weapon.

Like how you need 1 Runtherd for every 10 Gretchin, meaning 1 Runtherd and 19 Grots is a legal unit.

Thats so easy even a dumb blonde could figure it out (not intending to offend any dumb blondes).

I don't have a Blood Angels Codex, so the wording may be different there, but for regular marines the exact wording is "for every five models in the squad, one terminator may choose one of the following options:" then lists the three. The BA dex may have the same wording, someone who has it would need to check (the OP was clearly paraphrasing). For vanilla it is definitely 0-4 = 0 upgrades, 5-9 = 1 upgrade, 10 = 2 upgrades.

You clearly can give one man in a 10-man squad a heavy flamer or assault cannon and a cyclone, but I don't know why you'd want to. It's also possible to give the weapon upgrade to the sergeant, which would let you lose the special weapon but not a power fist, though I'm not going to bother swapping any arms for that.

I can't believe GW did this again... In the 2nd edition Codex SW; you could take a wolf guard with an assault cannon and a cyclone missile launcher (also riding a bike iirc). It was a huge joke, then GW FAQed it and said that you couldn't... even though you clearly could.

I personally wouldn't do it. Partly for the reasons other users have pointed out, and also because it was FAQed before that terminators can't have both, so it might get nixed again in a future FAQ or codex, and generally give you problems. Meaning you'll have to change your model.