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I can not find an answer to this ruling, and play at my FLGS has confused me a bit.

When falling back and the result of the fall back is that the squad of marines is within 6" of an enemy model (or under half strength or not in coherency), on the next turn the marines must continue to fall back toward their players board edge?

Yes, ATSKNF does not grant an exception for rallying within 6" of an enemy, so they can be essentially "escorted" off the board in this way.

Thanks Dracos!

The only thing that ATSKNF allows the unit to ignore is being below 50%. If any other condition would prevent the unit from regrouping, then they are prevented from regrouping.
So below half, fine, regroup.
Enemy within 6", no, do not regroup.
Out of coherency, no, do not regroup.

The one downside to ATSKNF is that you can be walked off the board unlike units w/o it.

A normal unit will fall back 2d6 and then check to see if they are out of 6" range of an enemy and above half strength. More than 1/2 of the time they will roll above a 7 getting them away from whatever was close to them.

The ATSKNF unit on the other hand will test first distance first (and ignores the half strength test). And then make a fall back if needed. This means that they will never be able to rally unless some other unit intervenes to save them. This is why using Combat tactics to escape close combat can be risky. You will roll 2d6 and your enemy will roll 1d6. Even if you roll a 12 and the enemy rolls a 1 they can still move 6" on their turn to keep pushing you back. So don't try to tactics out of combat unless it is the enemy turn.

Whut?

I think you've misunderstood the rule.

ATSKNF have NO DOWNSIDE, it simply means that you can rally below 50% and that you auto-pass those checks. Otherwise they rally as normal...

EDIT: Ofcourse to Thaylen, I agree with Steelmage.

Dracos wrote:Yes, ATSKNF does not grant an exception for rallying within 6" of an enemy, so they can be essentially "escorted" off the board in this way.

Any unit can be "escorted" off the board. ATSKNF does not add/remove from this.

Thaylen wrote:The one downside to ATSKNF is that you can be walked off the board unlike units w/o it.

A normal unit will fall back 2d6 and then check to see if they are out of 6" range of an enemy and above half strength.

You've got that backwards. Any unit can be walked off the board - you check your eligibility to regroup before moving. BRB page 46 - Regrouping.

I think this has been overcomplicated!!!

To summarise (please read this WHOLE list before saying i'm wrong!):

-If you are falling back and you are under 50% of the unit's starting unit size, then that unit can NEVER rally (pending the intervention of some special rule)

-At the beginning of the falling back unit's turn, determine unit strength as mentioned above. If it is above 50%, it may ATTEMPT to regroup by taking a leadership test. This is NOT permitted if ANY enemy model is within 6 inches of that unit.

-Falling back units can fire, but count as moving

-If for any reason a unit cannot regroup (i.e., below 50% strength, enemy within 6), it will fall back another 2d6 (or 3d6 depending on the unit type) towards its designated point of retreat (usually their table edge but not always)

-ATSKNF is a special rule which removes the restriction of being unable to regroup when under 50%, and that restriction ONLY.

-ATSKNF also offers protection against sweeping advance, in that if a unit with this rule would be destroyed by sweeping advance, it instead suffers from the "No retreat!" special rule, and will take the number of wounds equal to the number it lost combat by

I think this is everything which Leadership/ATSKNF covers, though do correct me if this is wrong.

You forgot that a unit has to be in coherency to rally, and that ATSKNF causes any rally tests that you take to be auto-passed.

Otherwise I think it's fine.

There's always something lol.....

Meh, I seem to have mis-remembered the rules. Thanks for pointing out my mistake Spetulhu.

phyrephly wrote:

Dracos wrote:Yes, ATSKNF does not grant an exception for rallying within 6" of an enemy, so they can be essentially "escorted" off the board in this way.

Any unit can be "escorted" off the board. ATSKNF does not add/remove from this.

I never intended to give the impression that this was a feature unique to ATSKNF...

Oscarius wrote:You forgot that a unit has to be in coherency to rally, and that ATSKNF causes any rally tests that you take to be auto-passed.

Otherwise I think it's fine.

liam0404 wrote:I think this has been overcomplicated!!!

To summarise (please read this WHOLE list before saying i'm wrong!):

-If you are falling back and you are under 50% of the unit's starting unit size, then that unit can NEVER rally (pending the intervention of some special rule)

-At the beginning of the falling back unit's turn, determine unit strength as mentioned above. If it is above 50%, it may ATTEMPT to regroup by taking a leadership test. This is NOT permitted if ANY enemy model is within 6 inches of that unit.

-Falling back units can fire, but count as moving

-If for any reason a unit cannot regroup (i.e., below 50% strength, enemy within 6), it will fall back another 2d6 (or 3d6 depending on the unit type) towards its designated point of retreat (usually their table edge but not always)

-ATSKNF is a special rule which removes the restriction of being unable to regroup when under 50%, and that restriction ONLY.

-ATSKNF also offers protection against sweeping advance, in that if a unit with this rule would be destroyed by sweeping advance, it instead suffers from the "No retreat!" special rule, and will take the number of wounds equal to the number it lost combat by

I think this is everything which Leadership/ATSKNF covers, though do correct me if this is wrong.

Okay, so this covers everything??

You forgot the part where ATSKNF also makes the marines automatically pass the test to group (no rolling required). The ATSKNF rule also allow the unit to move after regrouping or stand still and not count as moving so they can fire heavy weapons. Normal units cannot move when they regroup and count as having moved which will affect what weapons they can use in their shooting phase.

In fact marines move faster when regrouping than normally, as they get the 3" normal regroup "move" plus the usual 6" move for moving normally

Heh, you know, I've never once thought to do that in a game. I might have to keep that one in mind for the next time I use combat tactics.

Attempting to have a marine unit use its 3" regroup move and then move a further 6" during that movement phase is not recommended unless you're looking to start an argument.

That particular horse got kicked to death when 5th edition came out, and it'd be nice to show it some respect.

Would someone mind explaining how marines get 3+d6" regroup?

They dont get d6. They get a 3" move when they regroup and they can move normally based on the normal regrouping rules which the 3" move in ATSKNF does not technically replace. At least that is the argument.

calypso2ts wrote:They dont get d6. They get a 3" move when they regroup and they can move normally based on the normal regrouping rules which the 3" move in ATSKNF does not technically replace. At least that is the argument.

That makes sense then, because it makes it difficult to have them escorted off the board.

TedintheShed wrote:

calypso2ts wrote:They dont get d6. They get a 3" move when they regroup and they can move normally based on the normal regrouping rules which the 3" move in ATSKNF does not technically replace. At least that is the argument.

That makes sense then, because it makes it difficult to have them escorted off the board.

How so? If they're within 6", they cannot rally and get the 3" move. The regroup check does not (as many seem to think) occur at the end of the SM fallback. It occurs when the SM unit moves.