Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've got a 15 point Mangled Metal/Killbox one evening tournament coming up in December and I'm looking for some list inspiration. I'm not a new Cryx player, I just haven't been in this sort of event and have no idea what's optimal, nor what do expect.

So- Mangled Metal is caster and jacks only. Killbox is basically a large box objective zone in the middle of the board.

I'm thinking something like..

pGaspy
Reaper
Seether
Ripjaw

pGaspy
Nightmare
Reaper
Nightwretch

pDenny
Nightmare
Ripjaw
Ripjaw

eSkarre
Nightmare
Reaper
Nightwretch

a) Which of those 3 lists is the best for the tournament?
b) What would you run, if you were in the event playing Cryx?

A Stealth Nightmare is a double edged sword for pDenny IMO. Sometimes you want it not to be stealth to block line of sight...unless a Ripjaw is used for that role.

Otherwise, the pDenny one looks neat.
__________________

Skarre looks iffy.
I think She wants a Spider jack first honestly.
__________________

pGaspy:
I like the Arc and Reaper.
Basically what's left is: Seether vs. Nightmare.

Seether is a bit better focus wise and has the chain for a free throw most likely.
Nightmare has a longer charge range with reach and a damage buff that is prey and Combo strike IIRC.

I guess it's: more boosting with power then go Seether.
More offensive jack action, go Nightmare.

IMO, a slayer is good enough and Gaspy likes to have his pet Canker in there as well .

pDenny is stealth as well. So LOS is only a prob vs Magical and True Sight. Not too common in MM.

I would like to try a pDenny with 5 arc nodes.
4 Rippers and a RipJaw point up nicely.
Sustained attacks on a stationary jack or caster.
Awesome.

For me, at 15pts I would go for much cheapness. Slayers over any of the other heavies.

So maybe Slayer, Deathripper, and 2 RipJaws. I like my Slayers.

Ooh 4 Ripjaws. I like the RipJaw also.

If I'm gonna run Bonejacks in a pGaspy list, they have to be Arc Noes. He's a spell assassin as well as a melee assassin.

He's the double threat.

I'm heavily leaning towards eGaspy. I started playing with him so I appreciate the damage he can do in his role.

Nightmare, for a focus, can go Ghostly. Which means walk 8" to his prey and swing at an obnoxious MAT10 without buffs.

However, pDenny would also be brutal at this point value. Crippling Grasp through a Bonejack reduces 50% of the opponent's army to SPD 2" or 3" and I can reap/smack the other 50% leaving the warlock/caster sitting there.

I have a Slayer, but I'm not a fan. They don't really dish out the pain like a Seether does.

I think..
pGaspy - edited
Nightmare
Reaper
Nightwretch
.. may be the go.

Or even..
pDenny
Nightmare
Slayer
Nightwretch

See, I'd go the other route and get the Leviathan, and some arc nodes, and work apart the enemy before they get to me. Other factions do smashy better, so you'd almost ahve to soften them up before they got to you.

Epic Skarre with a leviathan and maybe some Stalkers, just to mix things up..

Wasting a feat there, but he's pretty well defended against melee and basic ranged assassination (with Hellbound and Clouds to block LoS).

Kind of....boring? I don't know the word.

Soulreaping is not too useful (good vs. beasts).
Deathknell is soso, pricey cost and not much there to mass up around the enemy caster.
Excarnate is wasting half the power.

What's still working well is Mist (though not offensively), Teleport, Parasite, Hellbound.
Though, that may be all you need.

RipJaws are Arc Nodes.

I was running a Seether and liking it, but now I look at a Seether like this.
1.5x cost for not 1.5x the return.

Once the Debuffs kick in, the MAT doesn't really matter.
Either one should be beating on Heavies which are usually 10-12 DEF down to 8-10 or less. Miss on ones.
Same Def and ARM.
Those are the stats that really matter to me.
Pretty much any Heavy can wreck any Cryx Slayer-based heavy without a charge.

Grab and Smash and a free focus are nice, but I find it tempts me to be more aggressive with it than I should be.
Most of the time for me, buying another attack is going to cause more damage than a 2-hand throw.

Also, at 15pts its about threat numbers. You don't have units or solos to worry about.
If you can outnumber in MM it is a big deal.
It allows you to concentrate force and potentially have a man free for a blitz, to use a football analogy.

Eeesh. Sorry, the reference to eGaspy should've been pGaspy. I've been playing eGaspy for the last couple months with success.

eGaspy is next to useless in this format and will not be played by me.

Hm. I see your point regarding strength in numbers. However, I'm disinclined to randomly purchase another two Slayers. lol.

Choice of jacks I have at the moment is somewhat limited due to my playing Banespam for months. I own:

Seether, Slayer, Reaper, Deathjack, Cankerworm, 2x Nightwretch.

But.. let's explore the idea. What would you go with, Skrulnik? Slayer/Deathripper/Ripjaw/Ripjaw/pDenny?

Hm!

pGaspy
Slayer
Cankerworm
Ripjaw
Ripjaw

=D =D =D

^ I like that last list.
Canker is pretty focus lite in terms of 'getting' there in the first turn or two.

Slayer can take only 2 focus and charge, boost to hit with combo strike.
Canker can take 4 focus when it 'has' to down something.

While Ripjaws are good mixing it up or spelling stuff.

I really like the pGaspy/Bonejack spam list.

A heavy, everything else has AP.

Plus- Ripjaws are Arc Nodes- which satisfies my spell assassination needs.

And I've been playing with Cankerworm. He's very, very tricksy.

And how can Cankerworm take 4 focus?

What about Morty? It's built for her Tier lists and you get discounts on about everything.

Obeisance wrote:And how can Cankerworm take 4 focus?

If you bond him to eAsphixious...bonded jacks can get 4 focus. But I don't remember if eGasp has a jack bond to him...

He has Affinity- which gives Cankerworm a free advance if he ends his activation in p/eGaspy's control zone.

Pgaspy is nice in this format because he can box enemy casters on his own in melee or with spells, pdenny is kinda hit or miss when attacking some of the really heavily armored casters on her own.

Don't forget about gorshade, his feat can give him a big advantage in this format.

@Devilsquid12thRonin :

IIRC, the cheaper jacks are tier 3.
Tier 2 requires 2 Warwitch sirens.
Which means it can not be done in MM/KB I believe.

That was Ronin who mentioned Montenebra, I asked about eGaspy having a bond. If no bond, no giving the Cankerworm 4 focus.

Corrected. .
As for the bond, it doesn't matter which, the Canker only cares it's Gaspy.

Sanctjud wrote:Corrected. .
As for the bond, it doesn't matter which, the Canker only cares it's Gaspy.

You can only have a bond if the Warcaster has a bond to give.

Affinity[Caster] is not the same as having a bond.

Canker cannot have a bond with either Gaspy

Page 82.
Affinities section.
"A character warjak with an affinity can be bonded to that warcaster."

Hmm. I didn't really consider pGoreshade. But if I'm going for threat saturation, I can see him doing well.

His spell list is pretty crap though.

Bleed is only POW10 when everyone will be jack heavy.
Hex Blase- debuff is win.
Mage Blight costs 5 which means he won't have the focus to capitalize on it. No fuel for jacks.
Shadowmancer is clearly great.
Soul Gate is next to useless.
... and Cankerworm won't get his free advance.

What benefit does Cankerworm get from bond exactly?

... and does that mean Nightmare can take an extra focus from Denny?

A bond means it can be allocated one more focus than normal.
So if you >need< to get one more attack or boost you can put a 4th forcus on a bonded jack....but it's not something gamebreaking, just a situational boon.

As for pShade, that's pretty much it.
Though Soul Gate isn't next to useless, you have the Banes from the feat to Yo-Yo a jack.

Well. I doubt I'd ever need to give more than 2-3 focus to Cankerworm. But it's good to know.

I'm going to a gaming convention today and I'm gonna do some playtesting. I'm expecting positive results from the Slayer/Ripjaw list.

Sanctjud wrote:Page 82.
Affinities section.
"A character warjak with an affinity can be bonded to that warcaster."

Yes, if the warcaster has a bond to give. As neither Gaspy has a bond, Canker doesn't get 4 focus.

Sanctjud wrote:Page 82.
Affinities section.
"A character warjak with an affinity can be bonded to that warcaster."

I'm confused Laughing Man.
The Affinity is something the jack has.
The rules say if it has an Affinity, it can be bonded to the caster.

The bonding section talks about bonding in the opposite direction of Caster to Jack, as opposed to Jack to Caster.

So logically then the Warjack is bonded to the caster, and the caster is not bonded to it. Thus, it can't recieve 4 focus.

See? Pedantry works both ways.

Seriously though, there's a nice long thread on this on the Big Boards along with a wonderful Infernal answer: Affinities are not Bonds.

Hmm, I"ve been having a go with the Search function, but it's not turning up anthing good... it's mostly about eStryker and O'Rowdy lol.

I will continue to look for it, but it's safe to say it's not gonna come up to often, and if it does 3 focus is a bunch already.

So I had a game vs. Legion yesterday with the Ripjaw list. Killbox scenario.

pThagrosh
Scythean
Carnivean

vs.

pGaspy
Cankerworm
Slayer
Ripjaw
Ripjaw

It was really weird playing pGaspy when I'm soooo used to eGaspy. I had no tricks. No defenses. I actually had to *play* and use terrain. lol.

I allowed by to take the charges- making sure I was about 1" away so he failed. Ripjaw and Cankerworm ate the Scythean, Cankerworm was crippled in the process.

Slayer and Ripjaw nibbled on the Carnivean. Giving and receiving heavy damage the process. I also burn pGaspy's feat to finish off the Carnivean.

At this point in the game- I had all my guys alive, Ripjaw #2 and Cankerworm's heads (thus Bite) were inactive.

He summons a fresh Carnivean. I charge it, do some damage and fail to take it down. It goes nuts and finishes off two damaged Bonejacks and pThagrosh drops the other one.

pGaspy flipkicks the last few points off the Carnivean leaving him on 5 focus and in the open.

I decided to stand there and let pThagrosh charge him. He cuts himself some Fury and charges.. failing to take pGaspy down. pGaspy goes nuts with P+S13 Soulsplitter for the win.

So- I like the list. This game was invalidated by the fact my opponent (and myself) forgot about pThagrosh's Dark Shroud until all his Warbeasts were dead.

Bonejack saturation works in this list.. so much Armor Piercing. Ripjaw nibbles for like 10pts or so a hit.

So- I like the list. This game was invalidated by the fact my opponent (and myself) forgot about pThagrosh's Dark Shroud until all his Warbeasts were dead.

Also that you lose in MM/TC when all your beasts are dead...

It's Mangled Metal in reference to the unit choices. Caster and jacks/beasts only.

However, the victory condition is Killbox.

...

I'll query that, though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Turns out that no- the Mangled Metal win condition isn't in effect.

It's simply Killbox scenario. But the list condition is warcasters and jacks only.

...

I think I want to run with eSkarre- or at least give her a shot.

Something like..

eSkarre
Ripjaw
Ripjaw
Slayer

And 5pts left.

I'm leaning towards keeping Cankerworm in there regardless of his lack of affinity. MAT7 Armor Piercing isn't exactly terrible. Plus Skarre's Seas of Fate makes the whole battlegroup far more efficient.

Any other suggestions?