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With Assault Marines being the main troops choice, what's the best way to hold objectives with BA, seeing how hated Tac and Scouts are?

Either throw them in a rhino and park for five turns or Have them zip around gutting people for four turns and rush to the objectives turn 5-6.

With my jump pack based BA, if there are more than 2 objectives I will combat squad all of my troops (2-4 assault squads starting at 10 strong). I tend to be rather aggressive on drop but the nature of the army is to inflict major damage very quickly so it lets me maneuver in the last turn or two and use the speed of my jump packs to get to the objectives I need to hold. The aggressive nature of the army also makes it very good at pushing opposition off of objectives.

I used to use small tac squads in razorbacks in old codex. Now in a mech list I would use assault squads in razorbacks because they're cheaper and don't have to have 10 dudes to get a special weapon.

I'd hate to give up all those Bolters. If Troops are going to camp an objective, they need more than a single special weapon and Bolt Pistols. If they're just going to sit on an objective, then why not? Tactical Heavy Weapons are cheaper than Assault special weapons.

The trick seems to be to use a weapon like a Multi-Melta or a Plasma Cannon, so the squad can crack transports while it's camping on an objective, and therefore where the enemy is usually going. A Missile Launcher or a Lascannon would be for a unit that's going to hang back and camp, or break into Combat Squads and provide fire support.

That's not to say one or the other, just that they complement each other. Use one or two Assault Squads to capture objective, and follow them up with some Tactical Squads to hold them.

My buddy runs sniper scouts in his BA armies for both fire support and objective holding.

With assault marines basically the same price as tacticals, why not just take plenty of Assault marines?

Nurglitch wrote:I'd hate to give up all those Bolters. If Troops are going to camp an objective, they need more than a single special weapon and Bolt Pistols. If they're just going to sit on an objective, then why not? Tactical Heavy Weapons are cheaper than Assault special weapons.

The trick seems to be to use a weapon like a Multi-Melta or a Plasma Cannon, so the squad can crack transports while it's camping on an objective, and therefore where the enemy is usually going. A Missile Launcher or a Lascannon would be for a unit that's going to hang back and camp, or break into Combat Squads and provide fire support.

That's not to say one or the other, just that they complement each other. Use one or two Assault Squads to capture objective, and follow them up with some Tactical Squads to hold them.

A Tac Squad in a Rhino is a considerable point investment in a BA list compared to an Assault Squad in a Rhino, which is why no one uses them.

Polonius:

Because Tactical squads are better shooters and better objective holders than Scouts?

Seaward:

The size of the investment is relative to its payoff. You're going to get a better payoff out of using Tactical Squads to hold objective so that the Assault Squads aren't wasted out of combat.

Assault Squad
Including Sergeant, 9x Marines, 2xMelta Gun, Rhino

Tactical Squad
Including Sergeant, 9x Marines, 1xMelta Gun, 1x Multi-Melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad is 10pts cheaper.

In objective based games the half of a combat squad without the sergeant is often used to screen units that have one. Usually by turn 2 or 3 a squad is badly damaged and/or fails a morale test. The remaining marines fall back towards an objective to hold it. If the objective is in difficult terrain they land just short of it and use a run move to go into it. If it's out in the open they can hide behind a terrain piece, and jump out on turn 5. If the long range shooting of the opponent is really powerful it might take the remains of 2 squads.

Tacticals may be hated, but a couple of them in a drop pod fit the bill pretty well in my opinion.

Caffran9 wrote:With my jump pack based BA, if there are more than 2 objectives I will combat squad all of my troops (2-4 assault squads starting at 10 strong). I tend to be rather aggressive on drop but the nature of the army is to inflict major damage very quickly so it lets me maneuver in the last turn or two and use the speed of my jump packs to get to the objectives I need to hold. The aggressive nature of the army also makes it very good at pushing opposition off of objectives.

quoted for truth!

Nurglitch wrote:Polonius:

Because Tactical squads are better shooters and better objective holders than Scouts?

Seaward:

The size of the investment is relative to its payoff. You're going to get a better payoff out of using Tactical Squads to hold objective so that the Assault Squads aren't wasted out of combat.

Assault Squad
Including Sergeant, 9x Marines, 2xMelta Gun, Rhino

Tactical Squad
Including Sergeant, 9x Marines, 1xMelta Gun, 1x Multi-Melta, Rhino

Tactical Squad is 10pts cheaper.

The Tacticals aren't cheaper, actually, unless my memory of the costs is off, and I don't think it is.

Either way, what's even cheaper is to pay 165 points for a LasPlas Razorback holding 5 ASMs with a Meltagun to do the objective camping. And, again, that's why Tacticals don't see use in BA lists.

Assault Squad
Including Sergeant, 9x Marines, 2xMelta Gun, Rhino - 225

Tactical Squad
Including Sergeant, 9x Marines, 1xMelta Gun, 1x Multi-Melta, Rhino - 235

The Assault Squad is actually 10 pts cheaper: and that's per squad you're getting those extra 10 free points. Had my 'dex handy and plugged it out.

The reason you don't see Tacticals in BA lists, in addition to what Seaward already pointed out, is that you're usually going to run them in conjuction with Priests, and they're going to see some CC action, meaning the MM will be useless if you're planning on going anywhere - and who knows, you may not be playing an objective game, so it's nice to have the option of mobility.

And, if you're not taking Razorbacks, or Assault Squads, or Priests, you may as well proxy your Blood Angels as Ultramarines.

Okay, using the Blood Angels Codex:

Tactial Squad (90) + 5 more Space Marines (80) + Melta Gun (5) + Multi-melta (0) + Rhino (50) = 225

Assault Squad (100) + 5 more Space Marines (90) + 2x Melta Gun (20) + Rhino (15) = 225

It turns out we were both wrong, they're equal in pointsl. Nonetheless, the Tactical Squad will still be better for holding an objective because they can address units further than 12" away while holding an objective.

The Assault Squad may be better in close combat, but that's only if they survive until the assault. If the enemy can just sit 13"+ inches away and shoot them off the objective unmolested by return fire. The problem is worse if you're just taking a 5-man squad with a Razorback.

It's a similar problem with Chaos Berzerkers as Troops. Sure, they're superlatively awesome at close combat, but if they can only sit and take the hit then they're useless.

Nurglitch wrote:Okay, using the Blood Angels Codex:

Tactial Squad (90) + 5 more Space Marines (80) + Melta Gun (5) + Multi-melta (0) + Rhino (50) = 225

Assault Squad (100) + 5 more Space Marines (90) + 2x Melta Gun (20) + Rhino (15) = 225

It turns out we were both wrong, they're equal in pointsl. Nonetheless, the Tactical Squad will still be better for holding an objective because they can address units further than 12" away while holding an objective.

The Assault Squad may be better in close combat, but that's only if they survive until the assault. If the enemy can just sit 13"+ inches away and shoot them off the objective unmolested by return fire. The problem is worse if you're just taking a 5-man squad with a Razorback.

It's a similar problem with Chaos Berzerkers as Troops. Sure, they're superlatively awesome at close combat, but if they can only sit and take the hit then they're useless.

What you say is true, provided we're looking at it only from the perspective of holding an objective in a vacuum where those are your only two options.

My point earlier is that those aren't your only two options, and are actually two of the weakest in the BA 'dex, at least in terms of cost/return.

Believe me, I'd LOVE to find a good way to run Tacticals. I feel dirty running lists without a single Space Marine holding a bolter.

The 1 good thing Tac squads can do in a mechanized list is go meltagun/ML.

Combat squad and have the ML+4 bolters hold the objective.

The power fist and melta gun go in the razorback.

It's not a bad plan, but it is using vanilla marine tactics in a BA army.

Personally I would still only go with assault marines. Eventually a squad will be damaged. Pick them up in a Rhino/Razorback and start zooming 18" towards the objective. It just takes good planning in the first 3 turns and multiple squads can double back to take objectives.