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I'm trying to make a competitive Blood Angels list and this is what I've come up with so far. Our standard tournament points limit is 2000, so that is what I made the list for. The army makes use of the Chalice and Decent of Angels to drop down where needed and survive long enough to make combat. Constructive comments and criticisms welcome.

HQ-
Librarian, Jump Pack-125
Librarian, Jump Pack-125
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Powerfist-200
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Powerfist-200

Elites-
2*Sanguinary Priests, Jump Packs, Infernus Pistols-180

Troops-
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sargeant with Powefist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sargeant with Powefist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sargeant with Powefist and Infernus Pistol-250

Fast Attack-
Vangaurd Veterans, Powerfist-140
Vangaurd Veterans, Powerfist-140
Vangaurd Veterans, Powerfist-140

Total=2000 points

Spammy. But it'll do fine. I think you should swap out the plasma guns for plasma pistols, so you can shoot and assault whenever.

I usually caution against upgrades on Priests, so I'll make the arguement again. Priests are one wound IC with no Invulnerable save. When the squad gets into close combat it is going to be the first thing to die. Adding additional upgrades to them is like playing under points.

Well, its almost my list.
However, Vanguard Vets with jump packs and power fist cost 175 pts.

Okay here is a redone version of the list with correct point values.

HQ-
Librarian, Jump Pack-125
Librarian, Jump Pack-125
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Powerfist, Melta Bomb-205
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Powerfist, Melta Bomb-205

Elites-
3*Sanguinary Priests, Jump Packs, Melta Bombs-240

Troops-
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250

Fast Attack-
Vangaurd Veterans, Jump Packs, Sergeant with Powerfist-175
Vangaurd Veterans, Jump Packs, Sergeant with Powerfist-175

Total=2000 points

Allow me to explain my reasoning for plasmaguns. Around here there are Tyranid and Daemon players and I found large numbers of MCs to be a problem. Thus I have plasmaguns to drop the MC count quick. Sure I lose an attack in CC, but the extra shot I feel is worth it.

What powers you taking on the Librarians?

No need for power fists on the Honour Guard; they cannot charge with plasma guns you want meltas with the fist or ditch the fist altogether. Personaly I'd go meltas, much better.

You don't need three Priests; that's 240 points on three guys! You've got two already thanks to the Honour Guard, you only need another Priest and you're ok.

Assault Squads are fine.

Vanguard I'd throw another fist in with the spare points.

Sorted then

I was thinking Blood Lance and Shield. Mainly because I want only a single power for each part of the turn, Lance for mine and Shield my opponent's. I can see the reasoning behind switching to assault based weaponry on the Honor Guard. I'll think about it, but if I switch then it will probably be Plasma Pistols.

Are three cups enough to keep the army in range most of the time? I though 4-5 would grantee this, but if three can do it just as well I won't take them.

Meh I'd take infernus pistols over plasma still the same rate of fire, points and bonus attack - just range but you're charging right? So this is where the fist or even hammer would be useful. You considered mass power weapons though? I run this and S5 I5 on the charge can put the hurt on monstrous creatures throw in unleash rage with the librarian and they kick ass seabass.

I take three and works ok for me. Another Angels player I play with uses three too. Maybe you could do with four but I think five is over kill.

I for one favor the range bonus, as that is the only real difference. On the note of power weapons, are you taking about on the Honor Guard or Vanguard?

Take Shield for sure on the Librarians - your troops are going to love that 5++ cover save, especially against insta-gib weapons that deny your FNP.

Also strongly consider taking out a Priest - your Honor Guard have a Noviate with Blood Chalice. You don't need 5 [Priests] .

I also agree with Mercer in regards to the second power being Unleashed Rage - your entire squad is re-rolling hits, which is great. I've had very little success with Blood Lance - remember, it only hits one unit in an entire squad, per squad it goes through.

Hmm, so having both Shield and Rage aren't as conflicting as I once thought. I mean you only need to use Shield for a bit. Guess that seems as good as any to tag-team.

Yea it's a great combo.

Shield works on your opponent's turn.

Rage works on YOUR turn AND if you wish, on your opponent's turn.

When you think about it, you don't need Shield on your opponent's turn, as it is pre-supposed that you are in combat. Pretty sweet deal.

The power-build is Shield/Fear of Darkness, but I play against so many fearless/high LD armies that it isn't as effective.

arinnoor wrote:I for one favor the range bonus, as that is the only real difference. On the note of power weapons, are you taking about on the Honor Guard or Vanguard?

Honour Guard. Vanguard would be better with another power fist or two.

Librarian, Jump Pack-125
Librarian, Jump Pack-125
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Powerfist, Melta Bomb-205
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Powerfist, Melta Bomb-205

Elites-
3*Sanguinary Priests, Jump Packs, Melta Bombs-240

Troops-
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250

Fast Attack-
Vangaurd Veterans, Jump Packs, Sergeant with Powerfist-175
Vangaurd Veterans, Jump Packs, Sergeant with Powerfist-175

Total=2000 points

You need to play it a few times in order to see how it feels.

Okay I got the list to 1950, adding in some stuff I forgot mostly. Now I don't know what to do with the remaining 50 points.

HQ-
Librarian, Jump Pack, Unleashed Rage, Shield of Sanguinius-125
Librarian, Jump Pack, Unleashed Rage, Shield of Sanguinius-125
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Jump Packs-225
Honor Guard, 4*Plasmaguns, Jump Packs-225

Elites-
2*Sanguinary Priest, Jump Packs-150

Troops-
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250
Assault Squad, 10 man, 2*Meltaguns, Sergeant with Powerfist and Infernus Pistol-250

Fast Attack-
Vangaurd Veterans, Jump Packs, Sergeant with Powerfist-175
Vangaurd Veterans, Jump Packs, Sergeant with Powerfist-175

Total=1950 points

Honestly if you're taking Pistols on your Sergeants then you may as well give them Power Weapons so you can capitalize on that +1 attack. You'll be in FC range almost every time and str5 Power Weapons are quite good. Points saved from the change to Power Weapons can get you a third Priest.

If you decide you don't like the Power Weapons then you can grab Infernus Pistols for your Priests or put a Power Fist in each of the Honor Guard units, or maybe a Storm Shield or second Power Fist in each of your Vanguard units.

Add two power fists one into each Vanguard unit

Don't give power weapons on the Sgts as Caffran said because the point of the fist is to charge in and smash the tank after. While S5 power weaps are the nuts, you don't need them as the units job is to destroy tanks, if there's infantry inside charge them, the fist is I2 thanks to the Priests anyway.

Also you don't need more Priests, 4 is enough.

No point power fists on Honour Guard as cannot charge after when firing plasma guns...

Powerfists in the Honor Guard help bail them out of combats they get stuck in (which simply will happen sometimes since in order to shoot something they have to be in charge range). Not the best choice for spending the points, but not useless.

The Assault Squads aren't only tank killers and they've already got 3 Meltas in each unit + Krak Grenades or Str5 attacks on the charge agaisnt vehicles. The Power Weapon hardly compromises their ability to kill vehicles and makes them more of a threat against infantry.

You can save more points by swapping the Infernus Pistols over to Combi-Meltas if you want to keep the Power Fist. You can't make use of the +1 attack from Pistol/CCW if you have the Fist and the regular Melta shot from a Combi-Melta is more useful/easier to set up for 2D6 range than the IP. The IP gives you melta shots after the turn you land though (that's the trade off, alpha strike power for longevity).

Will they get charged? Yes they will. Will a single fist help with 2 attacks? No, not really. Mass power weapons are the bomb though Personaly I'd rather have those Honour Guard shooting and then assaulting take advantage of the Priest built into the unit

While the power weapon does make them a better threat against infantry, their role is smacking vehicles and the more so with S5 attacks or krak grenades as you mentioned. If they have flamers it would be a different story

mercer wrote:Add two power fists one into each Vanguard unit

Don't give power weapons on the Sgts as Caffran said because the point of the fist is to charge in and smash the tank after. While S5 power weaps are the nuts, you don't need them as the units job is to destroy tanks, if there's infantry inside charge them, the fist is I2 thanks to the Priests anyway.

Also you don't need more Priests, 4 is enough.

No point power fists on Honour Guard as cannot charge after when firing plasma guns...

FC dont make your fists hit at I2.

Yes they do. Fists make you I1 and furious charge is +1 initiative.

I found that 3 Vanguard squads are almost mandatory in a DoA army at the 2000 pt level.

wuestenfux wrote:I found that 3 Vanguard squads are almost mandatory in a DoA army at the 2000 pt level.

Same here. They're really good and you want to try and make sure you get at least 2 units of them on turn 2.

Just make sure those Vanguards have several power fists

mercer wrote:Just make sure those Vanguards have several power fists

I think you're correct here as well. I've noticed with my Vanguards (especially against things like mech IG) that it would be outstanding to get either a second Powerfist in there or get Meltabombs on the entire unit. I think I like the versatility of the second Powerfist more though. I have a hard time delegating any more points than absolutely necessary to the Vanguards because they're definitely going to die in most games, but the second Fist might make them a whole lot more effective.

Both are cool. Meltabombs on the entire unit equal one fist which gets 3 attacks on the charge, meltabombs will get 5, that's of course not taking anything else. Personally I'd take either 2 fists or a single fist and rest meltbombs.

My mate Kris has been in the situation twice when a single Vanguard power fist has failed to do damage. That's pants and a waste of the unit.

The second Fist is a lot better for killing things like Tervigons and characters though, which makes it appealing over the Meltabombs. the versatility seems important for Vanguards since they want to be able to be a threat to just about everything.

A unit full of Meltabombs charging into a car park does seem pretty damn good though. I agree completely that you go 1 fist/4 meltabombs or 2 fists/0 meltabombs. If you do all of it at once then you're just blowing points away on overkill for no reason.

Yeah monstrous creatures melta bombs do nothing against also against walkers you need a 6+ to hit with grenades, not cool. But slagging tanks is what they do best.

Try the configs I suggest and report in

mercer wrote:Yes they do. Fists make you I1 and furious charge is +1 initiative.

Fists never benefit from special rules and always attack at I1. Check the power fist rule.

Ah bummer, thanks for pointing that out