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So my gameing club is looking to get into FoW, specifically late war. I started off thinking of going the PanzerGrenadier route, but I want to transition into the SS. i have the Fortress Europe book as well as a Panzergrenadier Platoon. What do I need to go more of an SS route, rule books and model wise. Alos does anyone know of any good referance material as far as paint schemes goes.

Thanks

There are a few core SS units I believe that they made models for. However I believe most of the difference is in the paint jobs themselves. This is in regards to Battlefront models. Not sure about other WWII producers. The top links offer plenty of resources!

As for models in FoW terms, SS have what the Regular Werhmacht have, except they are rated Fearless Veterans. I believe its in either Villers-Bocage or Fortress Europe that they offer a little math conversion table on what SS equivilants would be of the regular kompanies. Dont have any of that with me at the moment, but Ill try and find it.

Its Waffen-SS you want to game with... Not SS. Minor point, but if you are playing WW2, always best to get the terminolgy correct...

Paint schemes, for vehicles, are the same as all late-war German vehicles. Only the unit insignia would vary. Plenty of pics on the internet and thousands of books available.

Im not even going to get into the pointlessness of FOW considering all Waffen-SS as 'Fearless Veterans'...

Thanks for the information guys.

This is my first forey into historicals so sorry about the terminology.

As far as additional rule books go for the Waffen-SS. Is it the the Villers Bocage book I need or is there a different book. Also how would an army fielded out of that book fair against one from Fortress Europe.

Thanks again!


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Just to get something straight in my mind historically. The Waffen-SS is the full name for what is commonly refered to as the SS, correct?

The 'SS' was made up of a number of different bodies.

Waffen-SS refers to the 'Armed-SS' (originally the SS-VT), those units that performed a military combat role.

The other branch was the Allgemiene-SS ('General-SS) that dealt with admin, regional security, originally camp personnel, intelligence etc. The SD for example was part of this.

The SS has two clear functioning bodies. One military and one internal. There is some crossover between the two in regards use of personnel, but any combat units are part of the Waffen-SS.

The reason I use the distinction is that the operations of the Allgemeine-SS has no true combat role (though SD units did take part in some operations against insurgents) and I think its worth making the distinction due to the highly unsavoury nature of some of their roles.

That said the Waffen-SS were no saints. Their record is utterly tarnished by the huge number of atrocities commited by their personnel. I know its only a game but the Waffen-SS still draw huge emotion from people for their actions, and the actions of the SS in general. Sadly these days they are seen as 'kewl' and people tend to gloss over their unsavoury side... I have seen recent histories of 'Das Reich' that fail to even mention Oradour.

Anywho, apologies for the ramble! I have spent a long time looking at Waffen-SS formations and sustained a fair amount of negativity for that interest.



What you will want to look at are the different Waffen-SS camo patterns for the troops. They used a number of types different to the Heer.

They also used a mouse grey uniform at times, rather than the usual field grey of the Heer.

If late-war you want to look at Oak Leaf, Planetree and Pea Dot as camo uniforms... and generally mouse grey for tunics and trousers. But there are other styles too. The important thing to remember is that they used a different pattern to the Heer.

Two types of SS. Allgemeine SS and Waffen SS.

The Allgemeine SS or "General" SS is your RSHA, Gestapo, Concentration Camp Staff, Police and anti Partizan units etc.

Waffen SS are the fighting divisions. This is what you will play with in FOW.

After the war lots of Waffen SS tried to distance themselves from the Allgemeine SS claiming to be "Just Soldiers" and not responsible for the crimes of the SS as a whole and in some cases this was justified (9th and 10th SS Panzer are good examples as they were made up of people conscripted into the SS) However there are many examples of cross pollination between the two organizations, the Totenkopf being a case in point.

It is a small distinction, but an important one.

Edit: Big P types faster them me!

Thanks for the information!

In the group where I'm going to be playing there are 6 of us so far. 2 are playing American, 1 British and 2 Russian. I chose the Germans so that we have someone from the other side of the picture, and that I'm tired of playing a faction in any game generally preceived as good. The Waffen-SS is simply because I think I'll like their play style.

In a typlical combat situation they wore camo though right, or did they wear both?

Thanks again.

As a rule yes, but not always.

So for ease of painting i could paint them Mouse Gray, but more commonly they would be seen in one of the mentioned cammo patterns.

On that same line of thinking, how hard is it to paint Camo on the Flames scale.

I've just started a blog for my Waffen SS force using the River of Heroes book. The d-day books that are coming out next month will have updated lists with a more balanced point value for the troops. River of heroes also has a painting guide for the camo, and the art of war book #2 has a huge, detailed section on the various types of camo along with vallejo painting guides and I recommend it highly,

Assuming you are going Late War, by far the most essential thing you need in terms of models for Waffen SS panzergrenadiers is the 'SS Panzergrenadier Company' box set. This has HMGs, PaK40s, HQ and 2 platoons of infantry with all the right details for late war. There is something like 130+ models in there with all the options you will need for the lists in question.

I've not attempted to paint camo yet but from what I hear it is not that easy and is very time consuming. Should be a fun challenge at least, and always look fantastic when completed at such a small scale in my opinion.

Awsome, I'm definatly going to check out your blog.

I'm definatly going to pick up some of the SS Panzergrenadier's, I've also had my eye on the Art of War books.

I'm hopeing to be able to use my Panzergrenadier Platoon box that I bought at some point in my Waffen-SS force.

Thanks for the info.

The standard panzergrenadier box can definitely flesh out the bulk of the army. If you end up going with a camo paintjob it will be extremely difficult to spot any difference.

Thats great to hear! Also thanks for the tip on the book, the 3rd is what I was planning on going with, so I guess I'm going to pick up the River of Heroes book as well.

Thanks

Catyrpelius wrote:
In a typlical combat situation they wore camo though right, or did they wear both?

They wore whatever they had!

You could get a mix of camo clothing, have them all in the same or even have units without anything. The later the period, the more varied and ragged the uniformality.

In the pic below, you will see Pea Dot tunics with one wearing Mouse Grey trousers and the rest in Pea Dot trousers... All are from 9th SS Recce Btn captured at Arnhem.




Here is the usual smock with regular trousers, taken during 1943...




Some grenadiers at Kursk with just camo helmet covers and bunched up smocks...




Dead Machine Gun number 2 in Normandy wearing Pea Dot tunic and trousers...




Certain divisions also had other clothing.

1st SS and 12th SS panzer crews had a fondness for the black leather U-Boot crew jackets and trousers. 12th SS also used some Italian camo material as well for their grenadiers.

Awsome, thanks for the info. Unfortunatly or fortunatly depending on how you look at it, certain things require me to have an army all painted in the same style so they look like a cohesive unit.

I also forgot earlier, but there are loads of free official tournament legal Waffen SS .pdf lists on the flames of war website:
http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&kb_cat_id=100

Lego, you Sir are awsome!

My suggestion is to start with basic wehrmacht before jumping into SS when learning the rules. My experience is that while being fearless vets, you just do not get enough of them to be competative in most point based games. British guards tend to suffer from the same problem.

As you learn the subtle insand outs of the game, then start over to SS. I am not trying to discourage you but my first army was 2nd SS and I got my butt handed to me over and over. I found things much easier when I went standard wehrmacht panzer grenadiers.


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Also, good books for SS units are Operation Cobra which gives you the 1st and 2nd SS, Monty's meatgrinder gives you the 12th SS and the market garden books give you the 9th and 10th SS.