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Well Ive been playing Ulthwe Eldar for a while now using meched up storm guardians and a seer council and Im going to start playing almost exclusively at the 1k level with a lot of custom missions and I felt now was as good a time as any for a change in my list.

The aim here is to use an Autarch as an HQ with a squad of DA and fire dragons (two units I didn't get to use playing Ulthwe)

HQ
Autarch- EJB, Fusion Gun, P-wep, Mandiblasters (130)

Troops
10 Dire Avengers w/ Exarch, Bladestorm, cats (152)
Wave Serpent- Scatter Lasers, SS (125)

6 Jetbikes w/ 2 Cannons (152)

Elites
6 Fire Dragons (96)
Wave Serpent-Cannons, SS (110)

Heavy Support
3 Warwalkers- Cannons (120)

Night Spinner (115)

My main question revolves around my Autarch, Ive never used one before my idea for him was to join the GJB unit. That squad would harass light transports using their speed to get to the AV 10-11 parts. The power wep/mandiblasters were there to clean up any small squads with the 6 p-wep attacks on a charge. This niche was filled in my Ulthwe list by a warlock with a Singing Spear and I felt an Autarch could anchor the squad in the same way only better with melta and a power weapon.

Is this a valid idea or should i take him off the bike and stick him with the DAs or dragons?
I just cant see him adding anything to those two units

I know an Autarch isn't the most popular HQ choice but If anyone has had success with one I would love to know how you were running him.

Assault weapons such as Power weapons and mandiblasters are not of much use if you plan on putting the autarch with the GJB.

Maybe you could loose the power weapon, mandiblasters and fusion gun to buy a reaper launcher (relentless) you then have 5 points to spend elsewhere

I have debated this those 5 points would allow me to put an EML on the DAs serpent covering a bit of the loss of the fusion gun as far as anti AV goes.

My only thought about this is that it seems to waste some of the really good stats of the Autarch like the WS6, I6, and 5 attacks on a charge. Also he has fairly cheap access to a power weapon

Is this a valid trade off or am I expecting too much from an Autarch, I've never used on in a game before

I'm not the most experienced autarch player myself but it seems worthwhile to consider the laser lance if hes on a jetbike.

The autarch's real value comes from his plus to reserve rolls. In terms of real flexibility your farseer is a much stronger choice.

You can get(for the same price roughly) a guide-doom-fortune seer, with psychic defense, and the ability to buff your other units in the army. The farseer maximizes any one of the units investment(I would suggest doom with the dire avengers).

At lower points, Farseer is almost ALWAYS better. The higer your points go the more value you will start seeing from your Autarch.

An autarch with a laser lance and mandiblasters gets 6 S6 power weapon attacks on the charge, enough to kill a small squad. Just remember that if you don't win combat in the first round you'll probably be stuck for the rest of the game.
I would consider replacing the Nightspinner with another squad of War Walkers. With the autarch's reserve bonus you can outflank them and have a good chance of getting a TON of S6 shots on turn 2.

I use my Autarch with a squad of Warp Spiders with the exact same loadout(PW, Mandiblasters, Fusion gun). A mobile melta with a 18" melta range(12" move + 6" melta range) at BS6 is pretty great. And jetbikes are even more durable than Warp Spiders with their T(4). So it works. The question is whether Mandiblasters and Power weapon are worth 20points on a S3 model that is unlikely to ever see CC. Without Doom, it'll be very difficult to reliably kill T4+ models with your S3.

So I'd say leave Fusion gun. And perhaps drop the Mandis and PW, if you can think of someplace better to spend the points.

Also, I love War walkers. Love them. But maybe you'd be better served by 2 Fire Prisms instead of a Nightspinner + War walkers in your list? Both options are viable though, so whatever works for you.

Alright so my professor decided to bore us with a movie about weather this afternoon so I used the time more productively by doing some math figuring out wargear options for my Autarch

Power weapon/ Mandi blasters
6 Attacks x .66
4 Hits x .5 (4 x .33)
2 dead T3 or 1.32 dead T4

Chain Sword/ Mandi Blasters vs (T3)
6 Attacks x .66
4 Hits x .66
2.64 wounds
Sv 5+ = 1.74 dead
Sv 4+ = 1.32 dead
Sv 3+ = 0.87 dead

Chain Sword/ Mandi Blasters vs (T4)
6 Attacks x .66
4 Hits x .5
2 wounds
Sv 5+ = 1.32 dead
Sv 4+ = 1 dead
Sv 3+ = 0.66 dead

This seems to show the Power weapon being better against a wider range range of targets which should be the case given it is 10pts opposed to 5pts

Laser Lance/ Mandi Blasters
6 Attacks x .66
4 Hits x .833
3.33 wounds

Personally I was hoping for more from the lance since after the charge it is worthless and that scares me,the last thing I want is to whiff a bunch of rolls and end up with a 130pt model stuck in an endless CC for the rest of the game

Actually seeing the math on the Autarch's CC punch Im debating going with a more shooty Autarch 6 power weapon attacks sounds a lot more dangerous than it is the Str3 really hurts

I think the Autarch works best if you stick him with an Aspect squad and give him equipment that matches that squad. He's not good on his own, and it's better to have him compliment the squad he's with than to try to do something different.

If you want to go Jetbike Autarch, put him with some Shining Spears.

If you want Power Weapon Autarch, leave the bike at home and put him with Banshees.

Sounds good but I was thinking there would be a lot of lost potential if he hoped into either one of my aspect squads

He doesn't really bring anything to the Dire Avengers and the Fire Dragons rarely make it out alive after they bail out

Would one of these be better than the other? Or am I missing some benefit an Autarch would bring to these squads?

The autarch is a finicky unit, his real purpose, is to give you an optional +1 to reserve rolls, which makes playing from reserve against alpha strike armies far more viable. He is though, somewhat handicapped in that he doesn't really mesh well with the most commonly used Eldar Units.

- Dire Avengers are shooting at infantry, and hate cc (the autarch generally wants to shoot at tanks and fight).

- Fire Dragons are a suicide unit (which is not where you want to put your expensive HQ).

- Storm guardians, while not totally slowed in CC would still rather be shooting at infantry, like Avengers then fighting.

He can work somewhat decently in the following units though:

- Guardian Jetbikes *could* work. He can either take his reaper launcher or his fusion gun and get good use out of both, especially with a singing spear warlock for more anti tank. So GBJ provide a decent body guard for him, just don't give him cc upgrades, as GBJs are utterly rubbish in close combat anyway, and the lack of withdraw means you should avoid it like the papa nurgle.

- Warp Spiders are actually a pretty decent choice for him to join. Their high speed, good save, high strength weapons and the withdraw ability all makes for a great body guard. They basically form a harassing unit, they jump around, shooting at rear armor, or engaging fire support squads in close combat (you know, things you'd rather be fighting in hand to hand then have shooting at you) with a respectable 10 power weapon attacks on the charge- albeit at s3. Then they use withdraw at the end of your opponent's assault phase, so that they don't miss a turn of shooting.

Shining Spears: 6 more s6 power weapon attacks to a unit that has trouble generating attacks. If you take spears, you better take an Autarch, otherwise you just won't have the punch. They also have withdraw.

Jetseer Council: They're ok with an autarch. The Autarch gets some good benefit out of fortune, and can add some s6 power weapon attacks to the council's charge, but he doesn't really do very well in the tar pitting jobs that the council tends to take. ymmv, but I would rather take more locks then an Autarch here.

If you are going Biel-tan theme you may want to go deeper into aspect warriors. At the moment it's looking like a saim-hann and biel-tan hybrid.

akaean wrote: Guardian Jetbikes *could* work. He can either take his reaper launcher or his fusion gun and get good use out of both, especially with a singing spear warlock for more anti tank. So GBJ provide a decent body guard for him, just don't give him cc upgrades, as GBJs are utterly rubbish in close combat anyway, and the lack of withdraw means you should avoid it like the papa nurgle.

The more looking at other lists the more Ive come to think this is how I will run mine Autarch- EJB, Fusion Gun, Chain Sword. Keep him with the squad of Guardians Jetbikers for extra wounds and some Str6 shooting and pick on rear and side armor of AV 10-11. The Chain sword is just there for when something terrible happens he can cut his way out of a wet paper sack, a points filler really. I figure any army can use a BS 6 Jetbike unit with melta gun to cause some headaches and the +1 reserves is great for those alpha strike lists that all over the place where I play.

BlueDagger wrote:If you are going Biel-tan theme you may want to go deeper into aspect warriors. At the moment it's looking like a saim-hann and biel-tan hybrid.

I do have several other lists that I was trying to wrap my head around that included howling banshees but at 1k I couldn't effectively work them in thanks to not having a doomseer. Also with the banshees I end up with virtually no long range threat, just felt the two units of aspect warriors was biel-tan ish while still being playable at 1k

Unless you plan on assaulting with your jetbikes, what is the point of a power weapon? Anything that manages to assault you will probably have no trouble killing your jetbikes, with or without power weapon

Lord Rogukiel wrote:Unless you plan on assaulting with your jetbikes, what is the point of a power weapon? Anything that manages to assault you will probably have no trouble killing your jetbikes, with or without power weapon

Yes I completely agree on this point, I've decided to drop all CC upgrades and just use the Chain Sword for a 5 point filler to keep him cheap

As brought up earlier by BlueDagger is there anyway to make this list more Biel-tan ish I would like to make it as fluffy as possible while still having an army that can perform well on the table.

alspal8me wrote:
As brought up earlier by BlueDagger is there anyway to make this list more Biel-tan ish I would like to make it as fluffy as possible while still having an army that can perform well on the table.

Unfortunately, Fluffy-ness and Competitiveness are often mutually exclusive. The only units that works for both in Biel-tan Eldar is the Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons. Everything else is against fluff or isn't competitive. Warp Spiders are the only other aspect warrior that is semi-competitive.

Grakmar wrote:Unfortunately, Fluffy-ness and Competitiveness are often mutually exclusive. The only units that works for both in Biel-tan Eldar is the Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons. Everything else is against fluff or isn't competitive. Warp Spiders are the only other aspect warrior that is semi-competitive.

Sadly I've come to realize this while playing my Ulthwe army, I do fancy spiders though and my local environment us Nid and Ork heavy. A spider unit would be a better bodyguard for the Autarch as well.

Is there any logical way to work a unit of spiders in to give me 3 aspect warriors squads?

Ive debated doping the Warwalkers but I do dearly love them 40 points is really a steal and the model is one of my favorites.

alspal8me wrote:

Grakmar wrote:Unfortunately, Fluffy-ness and Competitiveness are often mutually exclusive. The only units that works for both in Biel-tan Eldar is the Dire Avengers and Fire Dragons. Everything else is against fluff or isn't competitive. Warp Spiders are the only other aspect warrior that is semi-competitive.

Sadly I've come to realize this while playing my Ulthwe army, I do fancy spiders though and my local environment us Nid and Ork heavy. A spider unit would be a better bodyguard for the Autarch as well.

Is there any logical way to work a unit of spiders in to give me 3 aspect warriors squads?

Ive debated doping the Warwalkers but I do dearly love them 40 points is really a steal and the model is one of my favorites.

Well, the problem is that you're limited to 1000pts. Eldar have to pay quite a bit for their troop squads with the expensive (but awesome) transports. At 1000pts, you don't have much flexibility at all in mechdar.

My main recommendation to get more fluffy Biel-tan is to increase your game sizes.

I agree with Grakmar low point games w/ Eldar are rough especially if you want to mech up. 10% of your army per transport adds up real quick.

But if I were to build a Beil Tan Army I'd have it something like this.

Autarch w/ Power Weapon, Mandi Blasters, Avengers Catapult

Farseer w/ Doom

Howling Banshee Exarch w/ Executioner
6 Howling Banshee's
Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuri Cannons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuri Cannons

10 DA w/ Blade Storm

10 DA w/ Blade Storm

3 War Walkers
All w/ Dual Shuri Cannons.

Puts you at exactly 1k Points.

Put the Autarch & the Doomseer w/ the Banshee's in the wave serpent to doom your target to make the most out of the charge.

El-dred wrote:Autarch w/ Power Weapon, Mandi Blasters, Avengers Catapult

Farseer w/ Doom

Howling Banshee Exarch w/ Executioner
6 Howling Banshee's
Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuri Cannons

5 Fire Dragons
Wave Serpent w/ TL Shuri Cannons

10 DA w/ Blade Storm

10 DA w/ Blade Storm

3 War Walkers
All w/ Dual Shuri Cannons.

Puts you at exactly 1k Points.

Put the Autarch & the Doomseer w/ the Banshee's in the wave serpent to doom your target to make the most out of the charge.

Ive never tried DA's on foot I always thought that wouldn't end well. I have used pathfinders before with very mixed results though.

I run my Autarch on foot with a Reaper launcher. I park her with a good field of fire in my deployment zone and use her as a sniper. In the games I've played, I find that I hit with just about every shot, and wound most of thetime as well. My 100-point Autarch usually makes back more than her own points.

I run my Dire Avengers on foot, and they are the workhorses of my army. I usually lose one squad, but the other two do well.

DA on foot can work as long as you're running a foot-slogging list and aren't mixing-and-matching. It can be a good list, but won't be as good as a mechdar list.

But, if you're going on foot, I actually prefer the Defender Guardians + Avatar combo.

Again it's a limitation on your point size. At 1k Points you can't really afford to put to much expensive eldar transports. There are two in the list I put up to get stuff where it needs to be 2nd turn, the DA are there mainly as objective holders.

I like rangers but with the prevalence of flamers nowadays, they are no where near as good as DA imo. Also the DA even in squads of 5 seem to do more damage than pathfinders.

DA on foot are fine. Personally I prefer to use my transports to ship my banshees and fire dragons where they need to get. DA have second priority and I've never had a problem with footlslogging them