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I've been playing a lot of games with jump pack based Blood Angels lately and having a real blast with them. The army is super aggressive and hits really hard, and I've had really good games against Space Wolves, mech IG, Orks, Tau, Tyranids, etc. The only things that have been giving me consistent problems are mech IG and large amounts of Monstrous Creatures (some Nids builds). I've been running (Dante/Sanguinary Guard w/Chapter Banner and Infernus Pistols on a bunch of stuff) in place of the Termies and third Assault Squad, but I want to try and address as many of the problems I've been having with MCs/low AP firepower as possible, so I'm giving the Termies a try.

Librarian: Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honor Guard: 4x Plasma Gun

2x Sanguinary Priest: 1x Jump Pack, 1x Terminator Armor
6x Assault Terminators: 2x Lightning Claws, 4x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield

10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist

5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)

The Terminators feel a little awkward because they don't get the same consistent drop time as the rest of the army and they don't land accurately (no re-roll and roll 2D6 scatter). They're very good against Mcs though, and they don't fall down as hard against things like Medusas/Vendettas/whatever low AP. I'm also worried that my unit of Termies isn't big enough(7 models after the Priest joins them), I was shooting to total up at 8-9 models just to be sure I'd have enough "extra" wounds in there to survive some torrent fire. I'm not sure if I'm better off with the Termies or if I should really crank up the wargear on one of the Vanguard units to get some Powerfists/Storm Shields, or perhaps try to snag a second Librarian and then set up a CC oriented Honor Guard, or maybe even a unit of Death Company (but they suffer the same fate as the rest of the army against things like 3x Trygon or AP2 templates). Is there a solid way to strengthen the list against these things? Am I looking at the right unit (the termies)?

Librarian: Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honor Guard: 4x Plasma Gun

2x Sanguinary Priest: 1x Jump Pack, 1x Terminator Armor
6x Assault Terminators: 2x Lightning Claws, 4x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield

10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist

5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)

Well, I know your list and I know how it feels to play it.
The Termies are MC insurance as is your Honor Guard with plasma guns.
However, I prefer 2 meltas and 2 flamers for the Honor Guard.
In my recent game vs. Nids (see battle report) I found that 4 flamers were really sick
killing broods with ease.

Alternatly you could go to 6 full Assult Squads.

Catyrpelius wrote:Alternatly you could go to 6 full Assult Squads.

Well, spamming Assault squads does not really help here.
Its better to have some variety like Vanguard Vets that can take on units upon arrival and Termies that are MC insurance.
For instance, a Trygon prime or an Avatar would eat a full Assault squad alive.


Caffran: What's your experience with horde armies?

If playing Space Marines or Eldar, things that aren't quite massive infantry, then stick with this list, the Terminators are kinda the mop up crew when i use them.
If fighting against hordes such as orks or nids then i would say have the Honor Guard with flamers.
If i were you i would drop one of the VV squads and try to get the Terminators to have 8 members and 9 when joined by the priest.
I do not have my codex on hand so i couldn't really tell you how many points (if any) left over if you were to drop a VV squad and go 8 strong with the Terminators.

Against Tyranids the lists I'm playing against tend to be something like this:

3-4x Tervigon
0-1x Tyrant/Swarm Lord
6-9x Hive Guard
3x Trygon/2x Tyrannofex
XXx Gaunts
XXx Gargoyles

Charging Vanguards simply tear gaunts to bits, it is pretty impressive. When they're coming at me in waves of 10-15 I'm very confident in my army's ability to win those combats. If a unit gets ganged up on though, they're lost. The big issue is getting the MCs to fall over quickly. It is tough to get to the Tervigons (the real key to everything it seems) as they're so well screened. I considered swapping to Flamers in my Honor Guard unit but I don't want to lose the high str/low ap shots against my other matchups, and the plasma guns let me touch the Tervigons without having to base them.

Orks are more or less whatever, I can land far enough out to dictate the charges thanks to my superior mobility and when my units hit, it's like a ton of bricks. Orks really hate massive amounts of str5 attacks. The Nob unit is a bit difficult to handle with my normal variation of the list but I think the Termies handle that unit nicely. Against more conventional mech/Battlewagon Orks the matchup is pretty good.

I'm hoping to snag our local Tyranids player this evening to try out the Termie unit. It seems like it'll work well, I have high hopes. I'm a little worried they won't show up on time since they don't have DoA and that they can scatter badly, but they're a very powerful unit.

Well, the Trygons can become a problem.
They hit Marines on 3+ and wound on 2+, and can reroll all misses - not sure if only the Prime can do this.
So you pretty much can face 5 to 6 wounds.

Yea, that's for all of them. They're really good, especially against lists that can't contain them with decent ranged firepower. I'm hoping I can run them over with the Termies. I hope to have some actual game experience with the terminator unit by the end of the day :-)

Well, I wouldn't let the Termies deep strike. Its too risky as they don't benefit from the DoA rule.

Caffran9 wrote:
Librarian: Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honor Guard: 4x Plasma Gun

2x Sanguinary Priest: 1x Jump Pack, 1x Terminator Armor
6x Assault Terminators: 2x Lightning Claws, 4x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield

10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist

5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)

How about adding Mephiston (he is Ws 7 and Str 5 w/t wings of sanguinius)? and/or Death Company with a Chaplain and Jet packs?


Here is my Jump Army

Hq;
Mephiston

Elites;
Sanguinary Guard
-Death Masks for all
-Infernus Pistol
-Company Banner

Sanguinary Priests x2
-Jetpacks
-Power Weapons

Chaplain
-Jump Pack
-Melta Bombs

Troops;

Assault Squad x10
-Sgt; Infernus Pistol + Power Sword
-Infernus Pistol

Assault Squad x10
-Sgt; Infernus Pistol + Power Sword + Melta Bombs
-Infernus Pistol

Death Company x5
-Jump Packs

How you play it? Sanguinary Priests to the Assault Squad, Chaplain attached to the Death Company. Sanguinary Squad takes on heavy hitters like Nobs and Terminator. Death Company is great for taking on Hordes of Nids, Orks, and Guardsmen with their ws 5. Melta Weapons are abundant in the army and can take out tanks and are great for hitting heavy-infantry too. Mephiston is suppose to be the "Elephant in the room" and uses his Wings of Sanguinius to keep up with the rest of the army. He also can rip a tank with his bare-blood hands.


Additions/Alterations? Another Sanguinary Priest for the Sanguinary Squad. OR a Furioso Dreadnought, Cast Wings of Sanguinius AND FLYYYYY!


Cons? Terrible army against attrition warfare, I did have trouble with a Howling Banshee Spamming army, but Mephiston took care of them.

Mephiston can't deep strike, so there's little point in taking him in a DoA list, as he'd start on the board...by himself.

As for the Terminators, I'm intensely interested in hearing how they work out for you. I've been struggling to find a way to get them in a predominantly jumper list myself, and just can't figure it out. Deep striking them seems risky, especially knowing that they have to weather a round of shooting when they come down, and possibly more if they scatter badly.

The other issue I see is the Sanguinary Priests. I neglected to notice that one's going with the Terminators, so that leaves you with one plus the guy in the HG squad for the rest of the army. Were it my list, I'd probably try to get one more in.

Mephiston can't deepstrike and he has no invulnerable save. If he starts on the table he's going to die very quickly. If he comes in from reserves he doesn't get a re-roll from DoA and he starts on the board edge, which is way back from where he'll need to be to do any sort of good. It is really rare that my army will start a game on the table (though against some armies and in some scenarios it is going to be the right call) so he just doesn't have the required abilities to fit with the rest of the list.

Mephiston also struggles very badly against psychic hoods, runes, shadow in the warp... not consistent enough against things that are obviously going to be seeing tons of play to really be worth it to me.

It's not that I don't like him so much as it is that I don't think he fits this type of list at all. He doesn't get to do any of the things that the rest of the army relies on, so he just doesn't fit.

Death Company is a different story. I've strongly considered a unit of them. A hefty unit as a matter of fact. I want to run 7-8 (couple of power weapons and at least 1 power fist) + Lemartes. Units like this will charge and straight up demolish a unit of Thunderwolves without really breaking a sweat, which is very impressive. I also see no reason at all to take a normal Chaplain + Jump Pack just to give to the Death Company unit because Lemartes is only 25pts more and is far superior to a normal Chaplain. He gets FNP and HUGE bonuses when he takes a wound. They're ultra expensive points wise and Rage can really be a pain in th butt sometimes so I've stayed away from them for now. They also don't help me against Mech IG or large numbers of MCs, which have been the main issues for the army so far.

Seaward: Where would you find the points for the extra Priest? I agree that I want another one in there, I just don't know where the points come from for him. Maybe just kick the Termie Armor Priest back to a Jump Pack and let the Termies deal with it?

Wuestenfux: Would you just deploy the Terminators normally? Or reserve them and let them walk? I really don't want to let them walk because they're definitely to slow to make an impact if they're coming from the table edge. Deploying them seems bad as well since they will get shot at for 2 turns straight and almost certianly die without impact.

My current plan with them is to deepstrike them into a relatively safe location while my DoA stuff brings pressure. I can run them to help them get into position on the turn they drop. My opponent then has a tough choice to make: does he shoot my jump packers that are right in his face or does he try to deal with the TH/SS Termies that will be in his face next turn? Most armies can't do both at once to an effective degree, so the board should be successfully saturated in my favor.

Caffran9 wrote:
Librarian: Jump Pack, Blood Lance, Shield of Sanguinius
Honor Guard: 4x Plasma Gun

2x Sanguinary Priest: 1x Jump Pack, 1x Terminator Armor
6x Assault Terminators: 2x Lightning Claws, 4x Thunder Hammer/Storm Shield

10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist
10x Assault Squad: 2x Melta Gun, 1x Powerfist

5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)
5x Vanguard Veterans: 1x Powerfist (on sarge)

Librarian is ok but meh on lance.

Honour Guard should have meltaguns or flamers to use the Priest to get furious charge in; cannot charge and rapid fire

Terminators do not suit this list at all and a single Priest isn't enough, you need three in a unit this size, inc Honour Guard ones.

Well, Mephiston is out of place in a DoA for obvious reasons.
However, he fits well into a mech list.

Wuestenfux: Would you just deploy the Terminators normally? Or reserve them and let them walk? I really don't want to let them walk because they're definitely to slow to make an impact if they're coming from the table edge. Deploying them seems bad as well since they will get shot at for 2 turns straight and almost certianly die without impact.

That's a good question.
If they have to hoof around starting from the board edge and coming from reserve, they will eventually never get there where they are needed most.
Deep striking them at a save location is probably the best you can do.