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Had a situation come up that Id like to get the general communitys opinion on:

Mek firing from Wagon rolls double ones for strength so gun goes BOOM! Does the wagon suffer any hits for this? We played as though it didnt. Also what if a squad is embarked with him? Would they go bye bye as well? RAW I dont think so....Im just looking for confirmation on these matters!

Thanks!

What is the exact wording please, as we cannot give you an opinion without knowing what it does. For instance does it say the model is removed from play, does it say that it takes a strgenth x hit, does it say it causes a catastrophic event causing the entire world to be sucked into a black hole?

If you roll a double one remove the mek as a casualty...models within 6in are removed from play...this brings up another question for me too then.

If the mek stepped out and got this result and there was a vehicle 6in away would it be removed from play as well? What if troops were embarked on that vehicle?

seems to me that RAW if he was standing next to the vehicle (which is a model) it would be removed, and since there are troops inside the vehicle they are gone too as a result. the vehicle hasn't been destroyed, so they cant disembark. its simply been removed from play.

in the instance of him firing from the actual vehicle i would go ahead and say yes the vehicle and squad inside are removed, and the 6 inches in measured from the hull (much like farseers measuring from the hull of wave serpents)

Ztryder wrote:seems to me that RAW if he was standing next to the vehicle (which is a model) it would be removed, and since there are troops inside the vehicle they are gone too as a result. the vehicle hasn't been destroyed, so they cant disembark. its simply been removed from play.

in the instance of him firing from the actual vehicle i would go ahead and say yes the vehicle and squad inside are removed, and the 6 inches in measured from the hull (much like farseers measuring from the hull of wave serpents)

+1 just like you would to see the range of a KFF inside a vehicle, its a trade off for double 6's.

Noir wrote:

Ztryder wrote:seems to me that RAW if he was standing next to the vehicle (which is a model) it would be removed, and since there are troops inside the vehicle they are gone too as a result. the vehicle hasn't been destroyed, so they cant disembark. its simply been removed from play.

in the instance of him firing from the actual vehicle i would go ahead and say yes the vehicle and squad inside are removed, and the 6 inches in measured from the hull (much like farseers measuring from the hull of wave serpents)

+1 just like you would to see the range of a KFF inside a vehicle, its a trade off for double 6's.

Yes indeed, a big mek w/ SAG in a full battlewagon flanked by 2 other battlewagons, with 3 trukks hiding behind, could easily remove from the game the entire formation with a roll of double ones. If that happens, you win the ork 'hilarious death' of the month and the other orks get a good guffah!

Interesting...well it appears we played it improperly then!

Good to know!

RAW, I suppose that yeah, it does remove the vehicle straight from play - I've questioned this several times when I play with my army, since I run a SAG Mek and a squad of 11 Lootas in a Killkannon-wagon. I tend to run it as the Mek and any infantry units in range are auto-removed, while any vehicles in range take an automatic penetrating hit. I dunno if that's correct, but I think it's a fair way to play it.

Just my thoughts.

Well since since distances from a model embarked in a transport are measured from the hull of the vehicle, any model within d6" of the hull of said vehicle would be removed from play. Of course since the transport didn't get destroyed by the rules for the vehicle damage chart, the troops inside also don't get a chance to disembark but aren't technically destroyed.

...huh....interesting. Do the embarked models then count as kill points?

Embarked models removed from play definitely count as kill points.

And as has been said, the 6 inch effect from tge gun is an equaliser for the mek-embarked KFF, so models within 6 of the incident are gone.

The moral of the story is don't use SAG!

It should be pointed out it's d6" you lose men, not 6". I would think inside a vehicle, you're so lose together you assume everyone got sucked in. I would think the vehicle would suffer a pen hit or just be removed as well

Juvieus Kaine wrote:It should be pointed out it's d6" you lose men, not 6". I would think inside a vehicle, you're so lose together you assume everyone got sucked in. I would think the vehicle would suffer a pen hit or just be removed as well

Rules say that models are removed. No pen, no glance, the vehicle just disappears.

*poof* Gone along with everyone inside and any other model in range.

Gwar! wrote:The moral of the story is don't use SAG!

But its sooooo much fun!

unless its been errata'd to say its a penetrating hit, the vehicle is gone. under the fluff of the SAG doesnt snake eyes create some kind of warprift/black hole type thing that sucks everything around the mek into it? im not sure how a vehicle would fare any better than a snotling in that situation.

Shake Zoola wrote:

Gwar! wrote:The moral of the story is don't use SAG!

But its sooooo much fun!

Yes, Yes it is.

Shake Zoola wrote:If you roll a double one remove the mek as a casualty...models within 6in are removed from play...this brings up another question for me too then.

If the mek stepped out and got this result and there was a vehicle 6in away would it be removed from play as well? What if troops were embarked on that vehicle?

The wagon was a model that was within 6". It is removed. Likewise, if he's disembarked.

I'm curious as to why you did not remove the wagon. What was the reasoning behind that?

Scott-S6 wrote:

Shake Zoola wrote:If you roll a double one remove the mek as a casualty...models within 6in are removed from play...this brings up another question for me too then.

If the mek stepped out and got this result and there was a vehicle 6in away would it be removed from play as well? What if troops were embarked on that vehicle?

The wagon was a model that was within 6". It is removed. Likewise, if he's disembarked.

I'm curious as to why you did not remove the wagon. What was the reasoning behind that?

A double 6 removes models from play as well...except for vehicles which take an automatic pen...so i figured a vehicle would react the same way to a double 1...we were going to do this when we realized that the mek wasnt physically on the table (i hadnt thought about counting from the hull which technically does place him on the table else he couldnt shoot) so we didnt resolve a pen...it didnt matter anyway as it was my the final shooting of the final turn and I was up by like 6 KPs or so (we werent countin...just krumpin!)

Seems like we played it wrong...no worries wont be happenin again!

I see what you were thinking now. However, the 66 and 11 results are quite different.

Scott-S6 wrote:I see what you were thinking now. However, the 66 and 11 results are quite different.

Well aware...it just seemed the most logical call on the fly to us...

Good thing it was with my regular play partner...he and I completely trust each other!

I would just like to point out that, RAW, it doesn't say anywhere that vehicles take a pen INSTEAD of being removed. It just states that all models hit by the gun are removed from play. Vehicles take a penetrating hit. RAW this would mean that vehicles are removed and take a pen hit. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm very new to the game and I might be reading it wrong.

Viper217 wrote: Yes indeed, a big mek w/ SAG in a full battlewagon flanked by 2 other battlewagons, with 3 trukks hiding behind, could easily remove from the game the entire formation with a roll of double ones. If that happens, you win the ork 'hilarious death' of the month and the other orks get a good guffah!

HAHAHAHAHA Thats just awesome

Ixias - you are correct, the pen is redundant...they seemed to forget vehicles are models too.

Ixias wrote:I would just like to point out that, RAW, it doesn't say anywhere that vehicles take a pen INSTEAD of being removed. It just states that all models hit by the gun are removed from play. Vehicles take a penetrating hit. RAW this would mean that vehicles are removed and take a pen hit. Please correct me if I'm wrong as I'm very new to the game and I might be reading it wrong.

You are correct in your reading. But, most players (that I know) do assume there's a missing "instead" in that rule.

If you're using the SAG, make sure to discuss this with your opponent pre-game.

The vehicle would take a pen hit, not be removed from play. Double 1s is the same as double 6s, it just changes where the pie plate ends up.

Multra wrote:The vehicle would take a pen hit, not be removed from play. Double 1s is the same as double 6s, it just changes where the pie plate ends up.

Double 1's dose NOT say pen hit, only double 6's dose. Double on is all model in d6in. are removed.

Wait, are you all staying that the intended writing was "vehicles are removed from play instead" or that "vehicles take an auto-pen instead"?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, this question refers to result after having rolled double sixes.

Noir wrote:

Multra wrote:The vehicle would take a pen hit, not be removed from play. Double 1s is the same as double 6s, it just changes where the pie plate ends up.

Double 1's dose NOT say pen hit, only double 6's dose. Double on is all model in d6in. are removed.

Actually double 6 says "every model hit by the gun is removed from play. All vehicles take a pen hit." So if people want to go strict RAW enemy vehicles would be removed from play on double 6.

Ah, I see. I think that argument might get me beat for rebuttal!

Multra wrote:

Noir wrote:

Multra wrote:The vehicle would take a pen hit, not be removed from play. Double 1s is the same as double 6s, it just changes where the pie plate ends up.

Double 1's dose NOT say pen hit, only double 6's dose. Double on is all model in d6in. are removed.

Actually double 6 says "every model hit by the gun is removed from play. All vehicles take a pen hit." So if people want to go strict RAW enemy vehicles would be removed from play on double 6.

I was pointing out that double 1's and 6's aren't the same as your post says. I know what is says. I wasn't talking about what happens on a double 6, just that double 1's dosen't say pen, just remove from play.