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While wondering how i can most efficiently take out a Leman Russ with Eldar, I got a question that I need to ask so... If a rending hit scored on a tank, an extra D3 if rolled for armour penetration right? And the point of rending is to act like a power weapon that only works on a roll of 6 for wounding. So... since Shining Spears have S6 power weapons in close combat, does that mean they roll an extra D3 to penetrate tanks...? I was just wondering that coz it sounds logical.

Those Shining Spears will have a maximum rending attack of 15 (S6 + 6 from first roll + 3 from second). You need to be very lucky to penetrate an AV14 vehicle. You can kill a Leman Russ with them, but make sure you hit it on the rear.

Loki got it right, you can archive at best a 15 with rending. BUT CC attacks against vehicles without a WS are always (see rulebook p.63, Armour penetrating in CC) directed against the rear armour. In case of a Leman Russ at worst against AV11.

The thing is, Shining spears don't have rending, they have power weapons. So does the "add a D3" rule apply for power weapons too?

No, without rending they will not get the extra D3.

Alright... so I'm gonna need pretty good luck to take on a Russ with Shining spears.

there are alot of ways to deal with leman russ tanks with eldar...you have fire dragons, which is usually the top choice. then you have bright lances that reduce its armor down to 12. linked fire prisms do the job as well with a s10 ap1 twin linked blast. wraithguard with their cannons can do some decent dmg, also the wraithlord since its a monstrous critter, so is the avatar. there are many more units that can easily take care of a leman russ or more with ease, just take a look at your codex and im sure you will find one that works for you.

and as for the shining spears dealing with a leman russ...just remember they dont have a rear armor of 14. i believe its a 10 or 11, would have to check on that. but shining spears dont have the rending ability on any weapons they can equip. now if they did then loki would be right, but they are just treated as having a s6 power weapon in cc and have a 6" range with s6 and ap4 with the lance ability which reduces the armor facing your shooting at down to a 12 if its any higher...for more info on the shining spears take a look at pgs 37 and 65 for the complete rules and options

EDIT: oh i see what i did...i misread the OP

Just throwing this out there, Shining Spears are bad. Not because of what they do but because of the points cost. Two fire prisms (TL S10, AP1 Small Blast) for 230 points. That will kill some tanks.

Yeah i know, Fire Dragons definitely have the best chance of taking down a tank. I would actually recommend for you not to take fire prisms to take on tanks that are as tough as Russ'. Fire dragons'll eat them up muuuuch better. I was just looking through my codex and thought to myself, if power weapons had the extra D3, Shining spears could do some damage too.

Bramnero wrote:Alright... so I'm gonna need pretty good luck to take on a Russ with Shining spears.

Actually, it's the same percentage of penetrating hits with and without rending (in this case).

Let me illustrate with the power of math: A shining spear is S6 (at least that's what you told us in the first post). The rear armor (which is what you hit in CC) is AV11 on a Leman Russ (as stated by lliadon). Therefore, to get a glancing hit you need to roll a 5 (for a total of 11=5+6), and to get a penetrating hit you need to roll a 6 (for a total of 12=6+6). If you had a S6 Rending attack with your Shining spear (which they don't) you would need a 5 to get a glancing hit (for a total of 11=5+6) and a 6 to get a penetrating hit (for a total of 12+d3=6+6+d3).

So in both cases you need 5s to glance, 6s to penetrate. The fact that you would penetrate "more" with a rending weapon doesn't help you in any way. So no need to be extra sad by the fact that they don't have rending weapons, they would still suck

Cheers.

^
Lots of 'love' for the Shining Spears.
Makes me all the more happy I moved onto the Bike Council.

3 ways I drop AV14 efficently and reliably:
1. Brightlances- wave serpents and wraithlords with brightlance can drop a tank with focus fire.
2. Fire Dragon Suicide squade- 6 fire dragons, boost up, melt the tank, watch them die.
3. Singing spear/witchblade- S9 auto hit rear armor? yes please

There are others but these have always been most effective for me. I once had 1 farseer drop 4 tanks with his spear in 1 game to himself. 2 of which were Leman Russes

I've found Fire dragon suicide squad does the best. If you work out the percentages, Dragons have almost a 100% chance of taking down a leman russ, were as... 1 fire prism only has about a... 3% chance (on the front armour)... IF you get an extra Fire prism though, it adds an extra 12%