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Hi all,
I just read on heroscapers that Wizards of the Coast have discontinued the HeroScape line to focus on their core products. Just about a week ago, I saw that Rackham Entertainment has went into liquidation, which probably means the end of games like AT-43. Does anybody else fear that the same fate could come to Warhammer 40K and regular Warhammer? Both discontinued games had a large following and their demise was not expected.

Anyone else feeling fearful at this point?

No.....

Rackham Entertainment has been going down hill for a long time, I didnt think anyone really played their games. Their demise wasnt a suprise to anyone.

Comparing the following size for Rackham stuff and Heroscape to Games Workshop is like a Civil War Ironclad fighting a WWII Battleship.

Wizards dumped more stuff before. DD miniatures skirmish was one case. It was not a bad game, got its little piece of popularity but continues nowadays without skirmish statistics just as a PC and monster representatives. Its just bussiness nothing personal, if you got Magic with Dungeons and Dragons paying your bills there is no need to feed "secondary" projects. And you see nice box and poster advertismenets for these two pretty much in every devoted store. And I dont consider warhammer like a secondary project for GW. Even Dow 2 retribution is going out pretty soon.

Wizards has always been a predatory company when it comes to gaming stuff. Buy an IP that they can turn a buck off of and get rid of it when they are done. The company is owned by Hasbro and answers to the higher ups who care about their shareholders more than they do the IPs under their belt...

GW is Warhammer, that being said it is their baby and will take care of it as such. As demonstrated by their almost fanatic way of going after people who violate their IP.

Rackham i'm not surprised with, because they've been circling the drain for a while.

Sorry to see Heroscape go. That was a fun little system, and a great way for folks to get their kids into gaming.


As for GW, yeah, not going to happen any time soon. They're a huge company, so I don't see them dying out anytime soon.

Hmm I wonder, maybe I'll be able to pick up a tone of discounted heroscape stuff.

Catyrpelius wrote:Hmm I wonder, maybe I'll be able to pick up a tone of discounted heroscape stuff.

I have been playing heroscape since about the time it came out. With the large fan base and already limited supply of miniatures, I would not be surprised if the stuff is seen on ebay with the asking price of a kidney. Some of the terrain pieces that are OOP run about 4x the retail price currently.

:-(

Less cheap/cool materials to cannabilize.

Rackham was not that surprising. They were in a tough market area.

As for Wizards dumping Heroscape, predictable really. I love Heroscape, but Hasbro pretty much just dumped it on Wizards. I play Star Wars minis and have quite a few D&D minis, Wizards really have lost the plot when it comes to miniatures games. They keep changing the format & rules and basically doing everything they cannot to annoy players. Pretty much the same as they are doing with the D&D RPG. Heck, they said they had run out of ideas with Star Wars minis; while I doubt that was the real reason to drop the game if it indeed was the case then they're in the wrong industry!

Can't see GW going anywhere though, their profits were pretty good last year IIRC.

Games Workshop is the largest (money-wise) gaming company in the world, yes, larger than WotC by a huge margin. They reasonably can't just disappear.

Ugavine wrote:Rackham was not that surprising. They were in a tough market area.

As for Wizards dumping Heroscape, predictable really. I love Heroscape, but Hasbro pretty much just dumped it on Wizards. I play Star Wars minis and have quite a few D&D minis, Wizards really have lost the plot when it comes to miniatures games. They keep changing the format & rules and basically doing everything they cannot to annoy players. Pretty much the same as they are doing with the D&D RPG. Heck, they said they had run out of ideas with Star Wars minis; while I doubt that was the real reason to drop the game if it indeed was the case then they're in the wrong industry!

Can't see GW going anywhere though, their profits were pretty good last year IIRC.

I agree about WotC. They have a track record of dropping stuff really early. I was suprised they dropped the Star Wars line altogether. With the Clone Wars on Cartoon Network and the Force Unleashed games, there will always be new minis to make.

Back on topic about GW, I hope you guys are right. I really enjoy Warhammer 40k and just started getting into it heavily. I would be saddened to see it go too.

I still have a ton of Heroscape stuff... it too bad.

Maybe sometime WAY down the road. I kinda see Blizzard collapsing before GW.

Seems like for a company/product line to go under, their market has to disappear. This happens one of two ways, a) some outside force eats away at it, the way video games have done to the modelbuilding hobby over time, or b) failure to compete with other players within the market.

Given that GW is pretty much the monster that the other players have to be able to compete with to survive, I don't think it's going anywhere anytime soon.

Ugavine wrote:Pretty much the same as they are doing with the D&D RPG.

Dude, don't even fething start. I've heard more than enough bull████ about how fourth edition is supposedly breaking the game to make me want to vomit. It's an attempt to gather more people into the hobby, there's nothing wrong with that... not like the 3.5th edition (or 3rd, or ADnD...) rules don't still work. Meh.

But yeah, I really didn't expect AT-43 to continue much longer...

There's a big difference between prepainted collectible games and more traditional miniatures wargaming. GW is fine, and won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

If this were 12 years ago you'd probably be saying the same thing, but this time about Pogs. Very little correlation here.

Melissia wrote:

Ugavine wrote:Pretty much the same as they are doing with the D&D RPG.

Dude, don't even fething start. I've heard more than enough bull████ about how fourth edition is supposedly breaking the game to make me want to vomit. It's an attempt to gather more people into the hobby, there's nothing wrong with that... not like the 3.5th edition (or 3rd, or ADnD...) rules don't still work. Meh.

But yeah, I really didn't expect AT-43 to continue much longer...

Mel, I think he was referring to the need by these companies to "dumb down" their product to make it more accessible. I have to say, almost all of the old school D&D-ers I know hate 4.0... Some like it, but the changes just seemed unnecessary to me.

I find the only thing really lacking in DnD 4.0 is its non-combat magic. Aside from that, it is an excellent system for quick and easy roleplaying (mind you, I'm not one of those GMs that use a lot of dice rolls during social interactions, but instead actually... you know... roleplay it out).

Melissia wrote:I find the only thing really lacking in DnD 4.0 is its non-combat magic.

That is my main issue with 4.0. Take the Ranger class for example, if you wanted to shoot an arrow you could, however if you want to get fancy you have the opportunity to do that... now its almost like they want the characters to be super-heroes with "powers" and to me that is really limited, especially when you RP things out... Dunno, something just seems "missing" with 4.0.

Haha I think the fact that GW can get away with selling 5 Terminators for $60, have a wide range of stores DEVOTED to their games, as well as books and magazines makes them a bit more resilient than Rackham.

Pity about Rackham. They had some really spiffy models and were developing some interesting and visually distinctive factions; I especially liked the Therians and ONI.

Brother SRM wrote:There's a big difference between prepainted collectible games and more traditional miniatures wargaming. GW is fine, and won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

If this were 12 years ago you'd probably be saying the same thing, but this time about Pogs. Very little correlation here.

This may be true for things like MageKnight, but both AT-43 and Heroscape weren't strictly "collectible" by nature... not the way games like Star Wars Miniatures were. That was one of the most appealing facts about Heroscape that I loved - I could see what I was buying and decide not to get it. Heroscape underwent a huge distribution snafu when it was removed from Hasbro's distribution to large retailers and had exclusives released at Toys R Us, Target, and Walmart.

Kicked to the curb, it was supposedly only available from FLGS's, until Hasbro realized they had a bungload of DnD Miniatures they were sitting on that were just discontinued. I thought it would be a good thing to revitalize the game - it got those familiar packages back in my local Wallyworlds - but apparently, it was just another way to clear stock and get both lines out of the picture. Sad to see it go.

On the plus side, DnD miniatures on the cheap while stores are clearancing merch!

Melissia wrote:

Ugavine wrote:Pretty much the same as they are doing with the D&D RPG.

Dude, don't even fething start. I've heard more than enough bull████ about how fourth edition is supposedly breaking the game to make me want to vomit. It's an attempt to gather more people into the hobby, there's nothing wrong with that... not like the 3.5th edition (or 3rd, or ADnD...) rules don't still work. Meh.

I know a lot of RPGers and no one plays D&D4. While I have plenty of gripes with D&D4 I'm actually the one who will be breaking the resisistance when I set up a D&D4 Dark Sun campaign. But right now our Games Club is pretty much dominated by Warhammer 40K & Fanatsy.