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I've been playing with a raider list featuring wychs, and it seems strong but folds quickly to the power SW/BA/IG mech lists. I haven't been able to find a way to beat them outside very good luck.

Therefore I've been brainstorming on other possible ideas for strong competitive lists.

One idea I've had is a WWP list featuring Harlies with the shadowseer to get the WWP in place turn 1 without really exposing any part of your army. The idea would be the army is in reserve and its just the Heammy and Harlies on the board, moving to a spot to drop the WWP.

At the 1500 level, I was thinking something along these lines:

HQ Haemonculus WWP
HQ Haemonculus
HQ Haemonculus
Elites Harlies x6 Shadowseer, 6x kisses, 2x fusion pistol
Troops Wracks x10 acothyst, agonzier, 2x liquifier
Troops Wracks x10 acothyst, agonzier, 2x liquifier
Troops Wyches x10 Hekatrix, agonizer, 2 hydra gauntlet
Troops Wyches x10 Hekatrix, agonizer, 2 hydra gauntlet
Fast Beastmastersx4 10 Kymerae, 4 Razorwing
Heavy Cronos Spirit vortex
Heavy Cronos Spirit vortex
Heavy Cronos Spirit vortex

I'm not so much looking for list advice here, but rather the list is posted for general discussion about the WWP delivery. Is this idea sound, or is there a better way to get a WWP out?

The most common way to use the portal is to with a transport, move forward 12", get out 2" and deploy the portal well past the halfway line. You can easily add in a second identical unit and run two portals as well. The main problem with this is that the unit which drops the portal is usually going to get smashed next turn and if you don't get first turn you risk losing the portal early.
Using Harlies sounds like a pretty interesting idea actually, but without a transport of some kind you really limit how far forward you can get the portal. 6" from the front of your deployment zone isn't really that far forward and even if you do organise them a transport they would only be able to drop the portal turn 2 (which is pointless basically).

Knowing that you are going to be dropping the portal a bit further back than is ideal you may want to look at using Hellions (with the Baron to make them troops) as they have a much bigger threat range coming out of the portal than Wyches.

Because they aren't in transports those Wyches really should be larger than 10 strong though, its one of the main advantages of using them out of a portal.

You have also somewhat overdone the amount of Power from Pain stuff you have taken. With Haemonculus giving 3 tokens out at the start and the Wracks starting with 1 your entire list is going to have FNP from the start. Add in the Cronos as well and you will end up having more tokens than you can really use, getting the first 1 for FNP is awesome, FC for the second is good (but a unit can get that for themselves usually) but Fearless isn't really that great.

The other problem is that you have basically no way to deal with vehicles at all. 2 Fusion Pistols on the Harlies, the Beastmasters, whatever the Cronos has + Furious Charge from the rest of you units (if you get it) isn't really enough. All of it is very short range/assault based which isn't a great way to deal with vehicles. You probably need to get some blasters/blast pistols/heat lances into the list somewhere, Haywires on the Wyches would also be good plan.

Okay maybe your on to something with the idea of harlies WWP + hellion troops.

Any other ideas? How would you best build around the idea of using Harlies to deliver the WWP?

Didn't he just point out harlies are one of the worst ways to drop the portal, as they lack their own transport?
Personally, I'd use a 5 man Wrack squad in a venom. Turn 1, move forward, jump out, deploy, hope fnp keeps some alive.
The haemoculus can leave the unit and join something coming out of the portal, while the wracks (if anything's left can jump into the Venom and go for an objective.

Also, beastmasters out of a portal seem to be fun. Same threat range as hellions, and quite a bit of CC umph.

Well that's not how I read his post. Certainly he brings up the negative that they have only half the movement that you would get from a venom, but then they are also going to survive much better since they have the shadowseer. "One of the worst" seems a little extreme.

anyone carrying the WWP should be considered a sacrificial unit. Burning an elite slot with expensive eldar that die to a stiff breeze doesn't seem like the wisest of choices.

Yeah, if you're doing a WWP list you really should have a cheap throwaway HQ in a Raider. Deploy on the edge of the deployment zone, make a 12" move, disembark, and drop. That should allow you to bring units onto the middle of the board.

Really, I think the best strategy would be to have 2 WWP in raiders. Do the above with the first WWP, while the second WWP does a 24" move first turn and drops the second WWP on the second turn. First it will allow your reserves to threaten an even larger area of the board , but it will also prevent your opponent from "blocking" the portals.

Yeah, if you're doing a WWP list you really should have a cheap throwaway HQ in a Raider. Deploy on the edge of the deployment zone, make a 12" move, disembark, and drop. That should allow you to bring units onto the middle of the board.

Really, I think the best strategy would be to have 2 WWP in raiders. Do the above with the first WWP, while the second WWP does a 24" move first turn and drops the second WWP on the second turn. First it will allow your reserves to threaten an even larger area of the board , but it will also prevent your opponent from "blocking" the portals.

Agreed. Two would be a good idea. Ditch the Harlies, they are pathetically bad and are too pricey. I actually think Grotesques have a place in Web Way lists. An Archon+ Grotesques could go on a tear.

how are you getting 3 HQ choices?

limit of 2

1-3 haemies count as 1 HQ

Personally, I think 2 venoms each with 5 wracks and a webway haemoculus is probably the optimum. Fairly cheap, nothing to cry about if it dies, but still reasonably tough. If the unit gets wiped, but the haemy survives, he'll be loaded with 2 pain counters to join an assault unit jumping out of the portal next turn. Otherwise, you have a small scoring unit that can jump back into its transport and cause havoc.

Personally, I like the idea of charging huge beastmaster blobs out of the portal. For 200 to 250 points, you can get a max sized unit of 15 or 30 guys (Razorwings or Kymeras respectively). I worked out the numbers. While kymeras are slightly more deadly and survivable, the razorwings are half the points. Incubi might also be a good idea.

I've been thinking along similar lines. The problem with all these "just take sacrificial unit in a skimmer" responses, is they don't work if you don't get first turn. Sure if you go first, it gives better placement. The harlies give you an option other than hoping they don't blow up your av10 open topped skimmer before you get a turn. With the veil you should be able to place well onto the board and still get very few shots at you if the opponent goes first with an average sight range of 14".
My thought is that moving to the 18" mark and deploying still gets you near the half point with the 3" width of the warpway.
For all those dismissing the harlie idea, what do you do without the harlies if your opponent goes first? Walk on from the board edge when your sacrificial unit gets killed after the entire opponent army shoots at it? Besides, if you do go first just join the hammie to the unit in a raider as normal and then bring the harlies out from reserve 29" across the field and directly into their lines.

Right now, I'm not sold on the idea of sending out a sacrificial unit in a Venom to deliver the WWP. This seems completely dependent on getting first turn. This seems to limit your HQ choices as well.

One of the aspects about the WWP is it allows you to change your mind as to how a unit enters play which can be exploited. If something swarms your WWP and you can't get your Wyches out, you still can bring them in from your table edge.

I'm still not sure I wan't to put a WWP so far ahead. If you lay down a WWP at midfield or further on turn 1, you'll only get half your Reserves out on turn 2. What if your opponent has castled or is so fast moving that he can bring most/all of his army to bear on whatever is coming out? That equates to 1/2 your army vs. all of his. Of course, this is all very, very situational. But, one thing that is a constant in the game is having the ability to mutually support units. If you string units too far away from the others, that unit typically gets picked off.

Depending on what the rest of the army is like, I'd think the WWP would be set up a bit further back on the table so you could pick and choose the better avenues of approach based on the WWP and your own table edge. The DE have very fast moving units (Reaver Jetbikes, Hellions and Beastmasters).

I won't blanketly state Harlequins is the best choice for this. But, there are a couple of things that I'm considering after playing them with my Eldar:

-they work better at full strength, which makes them a bit expensive.
-they are fragile in assault, therefore, they need to be able to kill off (or near enough) their opposing unit before it hits back; the Archon could better their assault capability w/ powerweapon attacks.
-I've had good luck with their shooting (Fusion Pistols and surprisingly, the Shrieker Cannon); an Archon could enhance this via a Blaster; it gives the unit another chance to hit a light transport at range (Rhinos/Razorbacks)

As I'm seeing it (I'd love to proxy playtest this today/tomorrow) by setting up a WWP closer to my own table edge, I've got two locations to bring in Reserves in which affords me better placement options as well as mutual unit support.

Plus, Harlies are just plain fun to use and Jes Goodwin sculpted them.

The thing with the venom is that you can hide it behind terrain on deployment, and then put down the portal anywhere within 14 inches of that point. The second portal lets you enter further up field or in what is essentially an outflank position. With harlies, your opponent knows that they're going to move forward six inches and drop it. 14 inches can be used to get a much more advantageous position, not just further forward.

You can also charge out of the portal. I don't think there's much your opponent can do if 50% of your army gets its short range shooting and assault without them being able to soften you up beforehand.

Hiding the Venom on turn 1 will be situational. In home games, this would be likely; in a tournament this will be highly situational as it's really hit or miss on terrain at these venues.

A second portal would be interesting. For myself, it would be a bit of refiguring what to do with the army as I was building around Hellions as a Troop choice. I'd have to look into Haemoculi.

I'll definitely concede that Harlies are not a popular choice. I've just played Harlies for awhile in my Eldar army and (after a bit of a steep learning curve) have found where their strengths lie. With this in mind, it's a unit I'm not ready to write off in the DE codex.