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Just figured I'd share my first list. I think I'm done tweaking it, but I wanted to get some opinions before I put money down and buy the rest of the models I need. (Kroot hounds' ability to sneak up on your wallet is far superior than their ability to sneak up on space marines.)

I'm 25yrs old but I've yet to have the opportunity to play, or even watch, a game of 40k. I live in the no-gamers-land of the Southwest so it's tough to put a game together, however, there's a store opening up here that's going to support 40k . That being said, if my list is a little off or seems odd, please "politely" suggest why a certain aspect of it may not work on the table.

While building the list I ended up with about 25 points to play with. I wasn't sure how to spend them, so in this build I just went with plugging more bodies into the Kroot packs, but I had also considered a shield drone for the battlesuit team, or a second drone for the broadside. I was also wondering about maybe giving the shas'o the stimulant injector. It seems like it's not quite as potent at stopping a wound as the shield drone, but given that the suit already has four wounds to play with, I was thinking taking a gamble with the way the stimulant injector works might be doable for staving off lighter wounds.

Anyhow, on to the list.

750pt

[HQ] 246pt
Shas'o
- Airburst / Missile Pod / Multitracker
Bodyguard
- Fusion Blaster / Missile Pod / Target lock
Bodyguard
- Cyclic Ion Blaster / Missile Pod / Multitracker

[Troops] 412pt
10x Fire Warriors with Shas'ui and markerlight
12x Kroot with 2x Krootox @
12x Kroot with 9x Kroot hound @

[Heavy Support ]
Broadside Battlesuit (leader upgrade) w/ a shield drone and Multitracker @ 95pts

- - - - - - -
My reasoning:

HQ
There's a heavy portion of the pointage sunk into the HQ and his bodyguards, but they seem like they should be able to pull their weight. They'll essentially stay 18-24 inches off of the main bulk of the troops attempting to draw fire away from the troops as they make their way to objectives. They'll harry with their missile pods until the troops are settled into objectives then they'll break off and put the special issue stuff to use. I didn't put an MT on the bodyguard with the fusion blaster because I figure he'll be out of range most of the time anyhow. His fusion blaster is more for if something like a dreadnaught gets dropped in their face.

Troops
The Firewarriors are just taken as compulsory and bulked out a little for survivability. I added a markerlight just for insurance to be used with the battlesuits or broadside. The kroot are broken down into two teams so that the team with hounds can infiltrate or outflank if I want them to. The kroot and FW will stick together most of the time. I'm hoping those two ox guns will carry their points. Seems like they'dll be really good anti-transport. The hound unit is kind of a "reserve" unit. I assume I'll be using them to try to reclaim objectives (after the HQ softens them up) or use them to 'counter assault'.

Heavy Support
The broadside will essentially be on it's own and will stay away from the majority of the army. Its railgun is nice, but I figure its job is to take out heavy opposition like tanks and such which I assume (and hope) will be dealt with by the time the broadside gets overrun (again, drawing attention away from the troops which should be settling into objectives by now), and hopefully the fusion and ox guns will be enough to handle leftover "lighter" armor, should the broadside go down. I kinda see him going out in a blaze of glory a lot...

- - - -

The Final Revision (Thanks for all the tips, it may not be exactly what some of you suggested, but I think it fits the way I intend to play best. We'll see how I feel after I play a few games. I'm sure you're right )

[HQ]
1x Shas'el AFP / CIB / MT / Shield Drone

[Troops]
10x FW
11x Kroot
10x Kroot w/ 8x hounds

[Elites] 3 individuals, not a team
1x Crisis MP / PR / MT
1x Crisis MP / PR / MT
1x Crisis Flamer / MP / MT

[Heavy] 1 team of 2 Broadsides
1x Broadside Leader w/ shield drone, SMS, MT, TL, and Bonding Knife
1x Broadside with SMS and MT

I have deleted the detail points costs from your lsit as we don't let the full detail be paid out in the forum owing to GW copyright.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/281186.page

I would drop the airburst and give the commander a plasma rifle. It is useful against marines, monstrous creatures and light vehicles.

Since it is a barrage weapon, his high BS is wasted by using it.

If you want the Airburst in the army, it would be better to swap it for the cyclic ion blaster.

This isn't a shabby first list, and with a few tweaks it could be a good 750 pt. list.

Okay, first things first,

I believe that Crisis battlesuits should only ever come with two weapons and a multi-tracker, though sometimes you may want to add some extra like shield drones. The configuration of a suit should also be the same for the whole unit. I also believe that the weapons should always work well together, no Burst Cannon / Fusion Blaster business.

Also, I believe that one should never take bodyguards while you can still take normal units, as bodyguards are more expensive.

That said, I would give your commander Airbursting/Cyclic/Multi Tracker. He will be able to mow troops, hopefully.

I would make your bodyguards into a standard Crisis Suit unit with Missile Pods/Plasma Rifles/ and Multi Trackers.


Your Fire Warrior unit and kroot are fine, except that Krootox are actually quite bad. They may look good on paper, but they are actually rather terrible. I math-hammered the Kroot Gun, and it is horrible for what you are paying for it. You are more worthwhile just getting more kroot and not destroying your ability to infiltrate.

That's all

Some people would suggest getting a Devilfish for your firewarriors so they don't die easily... but YMMV at these low points especially.

If you have enough extra points, I would make the one crisis suit unit a three man unit.


Good luck

Oh wow, I don't know how I missed that... I thought the Bodyguards were the same price as basic Crisis suits -_-... That opens a door.

Are the ox 'that' bad? :( Even when considering rapid fire? I was planning to plant the ox on an objective and take potshots at light armor. Also, they seem like the only troop option with enough punch to deal with armor. With the range I was hoping to plant the kroot down on a midfield objective and use those 2 oxguns to drop transports or pick apart small specialised teams the enemy might have, and I'm partial to the big dumb gorilla models. ^^;

I should also mention I opted away from the Devilfish as the FW's will be sandwiched between kroot until they settle on an objective, (ideally) and the points were a bit much for the list.

A question about the HQ, how well do retro-thrusters keep him out of close combat? I assume they can be used defensively in that if he's assaulted, he can bound back in his next movement phase. Is this accurate, and does it work very well?

bobert wrote:Oh wow, I don't know how I missed that... I thought the Bodyguards were the same price as basic Crisis suits -_-... That opens a door.

Are the ox 'that' bad? :( Even when considering rapid fire? I was planning to plant the ox on an objective and take potshots at light armor. I'm partial to the big dumb gorilla models.

Yeah, they kind of are that bad. Considering that you can get five more kroot for the price of the krootox, they are pitiful. There are also much more things that can take out armor, and certainly more effectively. Take missile pods, for example, they can rip through light armor, and they aren't bad at it. Fusion Blasters are always nasty as well, naturally.

I really doubt that you would ever get that much armor at 750, though who knows, you might. I never went through more than a rhino, once a vindicator, and some trukks. Missile pods can easily pop them, just get a view of the side armor, which isn't hard, and boom. Same with railguns, they will melt through anything.

I've destroyed Battlewagons turn 1 with a unit of Missile Pod suits. I just moved to see the nice big side armor, and BOOM!!!!! I've also taken out two war-walkers turn one with a unit with missile pods. Plasma Rifles are a capable combination with them because they are just barely weaker, and both are good at medium to heavy troop killing.

I don't know if I'm just lucky or what, but Missile Pods are excellent at light armor.

70 points is a second broadside... Might just do that instead.

That would work as well.

Quick revised version:
[HQ]
Shas'o / AFB / CIB / HWBF / MT (Had 3 points left over)
[Elites]
Crisis suit 1 / MP / PR / MT
Crisis suit 2 / MP / BC / MT
Crisis suit 3 / MP / BC / MT
[Troops]
10x FW (Removed the markerlight)
11x Kroot (basic squad meant to pair up with the FWs)
12x kroot w/ 8x hounds (infiltrator/outflankers or just more mass to the FW team. depends on what i'm playing against)
[Heavy Support]
1x Broadside with MT
1x Broadside with shield drone (I'd get a second MT but i'm out of points)

Would it be worth dropping a regular kroot for the second MT on the broadside with the drone controller?

Okay, I think this will do well. There is nothing wrong with dropping regular kroot for the second MT. If you drop one kroot you can get it.

Just for clarification, are those crisis suits each their own unit? It's fine if they are, just the Crisis Suit 1 should be by their-self because they have a different configuration.

another way you cuold free up some points is by taking a shas'el with a targeting array instead of a shas'o, you get one less wound on him true, but it also saves 10 pts. It's a very common thing to do for a lot of tau players.

I wouldn't use bc's on the suits either, plasma rifles are just such an uber weapon and only the crisis suits can take them, you really need more of those better AP weapons in there.

also, just from my own experience, it might be better for you to split up the kroot squads and make them even with the hounds, two outflanking kroot squads with a decent number of hounds is scary to a lot of people.

bobert wrote:Crisis suit 3 / MP / BC / MT

These are called FireStorms and usually half of my suits. I suggest one PR/MP/MT FireKnife, to deal with Termies, Oblits and other things with AP2 armor. As you add more to your army, a couple of each is a good balance.

bobert wrote:1x Broadside with MT
1x Broadside with shield drone (I'd get a second MT but i'm out of points)
Would it be worth dropping a regular kroot for the second MT on the broadside with the drone controller?

You could trim the Shas'O to a Shas'el, add a Target Array to have the same shooting Ballistic Skill, but you save 10 or so points. You lose a Wound. Big Deal.

No Game Store? Here's a few hints to get your own game table surface for under $20:
1. Buy a 6x4 foot sheet of 1 inch plywood (sturdy enough to play on, but not too heavy for a skinny guy to handle ), have Home Depot or Lowe's cut in half for you (for free) in two 4x3 sections.
2. Are there "Joann's" fabric stores in Texas? I guess any place will do, but you'll be the only guy in there. Buy 2 yards of green or tan or gray felt for a few bucks. I bought a black, dark green and light tan roll of felt, so I can change the surface when I get bored with one. These were 5' wide, so some cloth hangs over the 4' edge.

Now, you've got a game table surface that stores easily enough in the garage and can be put on the kitchen table or any of the usual 'picnic/folding' tables.

Terrain? I'll let ya look through dakka for alla dat.

You can only select 1 piece of special issue wargear, you may not have both the airbursting frag launcher AND Cyclic ion Blaster. it's one or the other.

Boris420 wrote:You can only select 1 piece of special issue wargear, you may not have both the airbursting frag launcher AND Cyclic ion Blaster. it's one or the other.

? page reference ?

I'm pretty sure that you can't have multiple of the same type of special issue wargear, but you may take every item, just once.

How viable are the flamers for the crisis suits? I was thinking it might be a good idea to have one more "AOE" type weapon. I tried to make up for the lack of them with multi-shot weaons like the BC's and MP's, but I was thinking about having 2x PR / MP / MT suits and 1 dedicated flamer suit to accompany the shas'o(or el), or to hang out with the troops and burn up assaulters bearing down on them before they eat the FW's.

Another question ref the flamers. I'm playing with army builder and it doesnt seem to let me take two of the same weapon system without taking it twin linked. Can you not take say... 2 plasma rifles and fire them seperately? I know you cant have 3 of the same weapon system, but I thought you could have two. Mmm... just thought about 2x missile pods (not twin linked) if that's possible...

bobert wrote:How viable are the flamers for the crisis suits? I was thinking it might be a good idea to have one more "AOE" type weapon. I tried to make up for the lack of them with multi-shot weaons like the BC's and MP's, but I was thinking about having 2x PR / MP / MT suits and 1 dedicated flamer suit to accompany the shas'o(or el), or to hang out with the troops and burn up assaulters bearing down on them before they eat the FW's.

Another question ref the flamers. I'm playing with army builder and it doesnt seem to let me take two of the same weapon system without taking it twin linked. Can you not take say... 2 plasma rifles and fire them seperately? I know you cant have 3 of the same weapon system, but I thought you could have two. Mmm... just thought about 2x missile pods (not twin linked) if that's possible...

In the Tau Codex,

If you take one of a system, it is one weapon
If you take two of a system, it will always be a TL Weapon :(

Sorry, but two weapons always is a TL weapon. I hope they change that in the new codex.

Your army list creator is pretty smart, mine will let me get [infinity symbol here] of every weapon.

Anways, TL Flamers are awesome. Re-roll to wound, and they are dirt cheap for crisis suits.

bobert wrote:How viable are the flamers for the crisis suits? I was thinking it might be a good idea to have one more "AOE" type weapon. I tried to make up for the lack of them with multi-shot weaons like the BC's and MP's, but I was thinking about having 2x PR / MP / MT suits and 1 dedicated flamer suit to accompany the shas'o(or el), or to hang out with the troops and burn up assaulters bearing down on them before they eat the FW's.

Another question ref the flamers. I'm playing with army builder and it doesnt seem to let me take two of the same weapon system without taking it twin linked. Can you not take say... 2 plasma rifles and fire them seperately? I know you cant have 3 of the same weapon system, but I thought you could have two. Mmm... just thought about 2x missile pods (not twin linked) if that's possible...

Their viability depends on how you use them tbh. Flamers are amazing but if you use them as a suicide unit then it is a waste of points. They are great in teams of 3 and very cheap.
Keep the unit to have the same loadout principles though don't split them up like you would in a SM tac squad or else they will be ruined.

And if you take 2 of the weapons they will always be twin linked.

Also your list is lacking in Anti vehicle.
You would be best to get 2 broadsides.

and at this point range drop the Shas'O to an 'el use the drop in points to either give him a shield drone + Stimulant injector or use it for a shield generator and 5 pts somewhere else.

Ok I think I've got my final build worked out.

[HQ]
1x Shas'el AFP / CIB / MT / Shield Drone

[Troops]
10x FW
11x Kroot
10x Kroot w/ 8x hounds

[Elites] 3 individuals, not a team
1x Crisis MP / PR / MT
1x Crisis MP / PR / MT
1x Crisis Flamer / MP / MT

[Heavy] 1 team of 2 Broadsides
1x Broadside Leader w/ shield drone, SMS, MT, and TL
1x Broadside with SMS and MT

- - - -

I went with the shield instead of the targeting array for the 'el since he's either throwing out 5 shots, or using a template. It seemed like he could afford to miss a little in favor of survivability. Everything else has stayed roughly the same, except I was able take take plasma rifles on two of the suits and will use the flamer suit as a bodyguard for the troops. I've got 5 points left over though... should I upgrade the broadside leader to a 'vre, or give the 'el a blacksun filter?

bobert wrote:[Elites] 3 individuals, not a team

More tau 'lingo'; a single suit is called a 'Monat'.

bobert wrote:1x Crisis Flamer / MP / MT

Allow me to dissuade your from using flamers on suits, ever.

The suits suck in h2h, and flamer range means the suit will get caught in h2h the next round and there goes the show. While TheBringer is right:

Anways, TL Flamers are awesome. Re-roll to wound, and they are dirt cheap for crisis suits.

, the result of getting caught is too detrimental for it to be used, IMHO.

bobert wrote:1x Broadside Leader w/ shield drone, SMS, MT, and TL
1x Broadside with SMS and MT

Spend the last 5 points on a Bonding Knife; its worth being able to rally the last suit, should it fail morale.

bobert wrote: should I upgrade the broadside leader to a 'vre, or give the 'el a blacksun filter?

No. 'Vre upgrades in the h2h stats don't actually impact combat versus MEqs. You would only take a vre upgrade to get access to the Special Toys, and you already have those on your HQ.

bobert wrote:Ok I think I've got my final build worked out.

[HQ]
1x Shas'el AFP / CIB / MT / Shield Drone

This is good. Although I suggest you look either into 2 shield drones or Shield generator + Stimulant Injector.

[Troops]
10x FW
11x Kroot
10x Kroot w/ 8x hounds

I would advise you change this to
10 kroot, 2 hounds
10 kroot, 2 hounds

It is very effective and nets you 31pts to play with. (if you feel it is not enough make it 3 hounds each, still nets you 19pts to play with)

[Elites] 3 individuals, not a team
1x Crisis MP / PR / MT
1x Crisis MP / PR / MT
1x Crisis Flamer / MP / MT

I would say this is a bad idea they are to alone and weak and if you are going to do it change one MP/PR/MT to FB/PR/MT so they fulfil different roles .
Although I suggest you run them in a team of 2 (same loadout) either get rid of the Flamer suit unless you can get points for a second one or change it to TL Flamer/ MP.

[Heavy]
1 team of 2 Broadsides
1x Broadside Leader w/ shield drone, SMS, MT, and TL
1x Broadside with SMS and MT

I would suggest you take these as 2 separate units Both with Leader/ 1 Shield drone. It will cost more But it is much more effective. You will have enough points for the change if you took the above change from the Troops.
- - - -

I went with the shield instead of the targeting array for the 'el since he's either throwing out 5 shots, or using a template. It seemed like he could afford to miss a little in favor of survivability. Everything else has stayed roughly the same, except I was able take take plasma rifles on two of the suits and will use the flamer suit as a bodyguard for the troops. I've got 5 points left over though... should I upgrade the broadside leader to a 'vre, or give the 'el a blacksun filter?

The el has MT so he will be shoting out 5 shots and an auto hit template (although it scatters) anyways.

On the flamers,

I usually never commit a unit to a move, unless I know that either they can get out alive, or it is for the greater good, that is, their sacrifice is necessary.

I have been in many situations where, even though battlesuits aren't incredible at assault, they will TL Flame a unit, then assault to remaining five models or so, and easily win.

I was up against an ork mob of 30 or so. I flamed most of them, and those left I assaulted, with a total of six suits (granted, you should probably NEVER waste six suits to have flamers). I won the assault, and there actually wasn't a bad chance at winning.

There are plenty of weak units that suits can safely assault, or at least five that I can list now...

EDIT - They were actually BC/Fl/MT suits, which aren't as bad. Use the flamers on the masses, and then use the Burst Cannons to clear out anyone left. It works very well.

Yeah I intend for that flamer suit to primarily be using its Missiles until someone attempts to assault my troops, at which point he'll jump over to protect them, flame a few of the assaulters and then lock them up so they can't get to the troops. If the odds look to be in my favor, I'll likely have the kroot split off to help him clean up. (I don't want the flamer suit to ever be more than 12" or so away from the main bulk of the troops).

I was wondering about the knife, but didn't realise it would work with just 1 model left in a unit. Good to know, that makes it easy to figure out where to put those last 5 pts.