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Why can't your units fire their weapons and then move? Why does the movement phase have to come first? This has actually caused me to come close to losing battles before. I don't know if I read the rules wrong and you can actually fire then move, but the rule seems totally stupid ridiculous to me.

Arbitrary rules are necessary, that's why.

Sounds like you need an assault army seriously though, you have to stop thinking of it as my army moves then his army moves. You need to envision it as all the troops moving at the same time (thus why you can take casualties from the back of a squad). so really its to determine if your army is still moving while their shooting or if they are going to hold their ground and shoot.

It makes you think more tactically, and more than just the current turn. If you find you could have won by shooting a unit then firing, you should have thought about getting the unit to that position a turn earlier.

zane2131 wrote:Sounds like you need an assault army seriously though, you have to stop thinking of it as my army moves then his army moves. You need to envision it as all the troops moving at the same time (thus why you can take casualties from the back of a squad). so really its to determine if your army is still moving while their shooting or if they are going to hold their ground and shoot.

One word: Tau.

And the rule does get quite limiting sometimes. Say, if you want to fire fusion guns at some terminators, but don't want to get assaulted in the next turn. So then you can't shoot. I can't get a shot on anything with tau that has a range of twelve inches. again!

The thinking was that, when an army in real life deploys, a unit moves into position and then begins to fire at the enemy. No one shoots at someone and then looks for cover.

I think it's mainly due to the Assault mechanics. Say you shoot before moving, that kinda makes assaulting seem kinda weird, especially if you fired a Rapid Fire weapon at Rapid Fire Range (which you can move in the current rules). if the guy could bolt it after firing his bolter twice, why not charge?

As for Moving, Shooting, then moving again to duck behind cover, that's what cover saves are suppose to simulate. Your Warriors peer their head through cover to fire off a few shots before ducking back. During those precious few sections they might get shot at by the enemy. Since you dont take shooting turns simultaniously Cover Saves are suppose to mimic this to a degree.

GalacticDefender wrote:And the rule does get quite limiting sometimes. Say, if you want to fire fusion guns at some terminators, but don't want to get assaulted in the next turn. So then you can't shoot. I can't get a shot on anything with tau that has a range of twelve inches. again!

1. Jump shoot jump. Terminators don't have an 18 inch assault range.

2. Plasma Rifles. That way when you are twelve inches away you can kill two Terminators.

You can't jump and shoot in the same turn though, so obviously you can't "jump shoot jump". My friend is the kind of guy who will assault the moment any unit gets within twelve inches of his (moving first, obviously).

And plasma rifles do rule, but I don't feel comfortable facing off one battlesuit with drones against five termies, one of which has a power sword. So I use the plasma rifle to take 24 inch shots.

(Although my one remaining kroot killed three terminators in assault once, it was hilarious)

... Dude. Jetpack rule allows you to move six inches during the movement phase, shoot, then move 6 inches in the assault phase And the suits have Relentless (as of the 5th edition Rulebook) So Crisis Suits can jump shoot jump.

Also, I can't see how shooting then moving would effect anything. You still have to use one movement to get in range of the enemy, so at one point you can be fire apon.

Oh wait, you can jump and shoot in the same turn, can't you? But I still can't "Jump shoot jump" without getting terminator power fists in my face.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm referring to stealth suits as well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And why shooting and moving would help is because if you are already in range of something, but the next turn they would be able to assault you. So, you wouldn't be able to shoot that turn. (especially with rapid fire weapons, but that is why a few of my fire warriors have pulse carbines so I can still get a few shots off on the run. If I'm in range by the time I've already moved! Grr!)

Why not? Do these terminators have an 18 inche assault range? They can only move 6 and assult 6 if you are within 6 inches. If you jump forward 6 inches from 18 inches( or stay still from 12), shoot, then jumo back 6 inches to 18 inches, you can't be assaulted by the Termies.

And the reasoning behind shooting before moving doesn't make sense. Could you give an in game example?

Read the post right before you.

And With battlesuits that would work awesomely well, just not for stealth suits. (they are jump infantry, not jetpack infantry, right? I'm kind of embarrassed to say this, but I don't have a codex yet. I ordered one yesterday.)

Works for All suits except broadsides.


And your example is still confusing.

Orks are charging a unit of fire warriors(pulse carbines). They are, let's say, 14 inches away, so they would be able to assault in the next turn. If I move back 6 inches, I would be clear of the orks, yes, but I couldn't shoot anything because they would be out of range. If I could shoot first, then move, I could shoot at said orks and still retreat. Clear enough?

Why do you have to move 6 inches away? Why can't you just move 4 inches away? Then you could still shoot the Carbines and they can't assault you.

Because I'm lazy that's why! No, I just took a look through the rule book and figured out that it's not all that much of a problem. Unless you have a gun that has a range of twelve inches.

Not really. Usually if you have a weapon with that short of range, it's usually because you are going to hit them with the larger weapon held in your other hand.

And the Stealth/Crisis/Hazard suits can still hop back from 12 inches to 18 inches .

Why are you crying so much about your army not being able to do something that will let it win? Tactics, deployment, supporting fire, cover......the list goes on with what you can do BEFORE you start whining about rules changes to benefit your army.

GalacticDefender wrote:Orks are charging a unit of fire warriors(pulse carbines). They are, let's say, 14 inches away, so they would be able to assault in the next turn. If I move back 6 inches, I would be clear of the orks, yes, but I couldn't shoot anything because they would be out of range. If I could shoot first, then move, I could shoot at said orks and still retreat. Clear enough?

But look at it this way, your exchanging your carbine fire with the orc slugga fire as they are charging at you. As they are getting closer, your units arent going to be thinking well they are only X amount of feet away and can't kill us until they're next turn, lets shoot at them and them move back, NO! they are going to high tail it out of there and count on support to slow the big mass of green death down a little. Not to mention that your units have been firing all this time and they need to reload, just think of that happening in the movement phase.

Honestly if your having a big problem with it, just go with a jet pack list.

1. Shoot
2. Move out of enemy range
3. Be a huge tool
4. Repeat

GalacticDefender wrote:And the rule does get quite limiting sometimes. Say, if you want to fire fusion guns at some terminators, but don't want to get assaulted in the next turn. So then you can't shoot. I can't get a shot on anything with tau that has a range of twelve inches. again!

That's called game balance. The ability to shoot and then move out of range or behind cover is very powerful.

If everyone can do it then the game is incredibly boring. Think about how that would work.

Small note:

ELDAR are the first to have Move shoot Move.
TAU are the one's that made the most of it.
__________________

Second note:
Try Warmachine/Hordes .