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This army is designed as a purely defensive based army. The closer you get, the more shots it pumps out and the more problems you have to deal with.

Please, no comments about "wolves shouldn't be played like this". I don't care.

I will most likely turtle this army up in a board corner and attempt to out shoot all but IG players. This list is designed for maximum cheese factor. The only thing that I can see that will give me a ton of problems is land raiders as this army has no melta to speak of. The idea is to ignore them and shoot down the rest of the army and then circle back up on them later. 6 flamers for horde armies if they get in close.

HQ: Njal storm caller w/ terminator armor - 270
HQ: rune priest in terminator armor w/ chooser, wolf tail talisman, living lightning, storm caller, master of runes - 185

troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150

Heavy: long fangs x 5 w missile launcher, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 215
Heavy: long fangs x 5 w missile launcher, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 215
Heavy: long fangs x 5 w missile launcher, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 215

I like it

No real improvements to offer except maybe swapping the flamers for melta, but you probably have enough AT with the 9 Lascannons and 15 Missile Launchers. Other than that maybe dump some of the wargear on the Rune Priest to get Wolf standards and/or Wulfen into the Grey hunters squads makes them surprisingly effective even in 5 man squads.

Although I maintain this is in fact the best way to play Space Wolves. They are the best defensive codex in the game if you ask me.

I'd drop Njal and just take 2 regular Rune Priests instead. For what you're doing, his Lord Of Tempests doesn't really help you out nor does his 3+ Runic Staff if you're keeping your opponent at ~48".

I'd drop Njal and just take 2 regular Rune Priests instead. For what you're doing, his Lord Of Tempests doesn't really help you out nor does his 3+ Runic Staff if you're keeping your opponent at ~48".

I don't see this list really doing that though. If he's being defensive the enemy will come at him and whilst he has transports I don't see this list as particularly mobile. Buying time and stopping pyschic powers when the enemy gets close is useful. Especially considering how many BA players use Libbies as replacement chaplains, or have flying libby dreadnoughts.

Just my thoughts. But yes he could do a lot of what Njal brings with 2 more Rune Preists.

Mobility will probably be dictated not by the defensive playstyle as much as terrain. He'll have to move eventually and sure, something might make it to 24"...but I doubt Lord of Tempests is going to make that much of a difference as the powerful effects only occur on turn 4+...and well if somethings made it that far, there won't really be much point.

Mobility will probably be dictated not by the defensive playstyle as much as terrain. He'll have to move eventually and sure, something might make it to 24"...but I doubt Lord of Tempests is going to make that much of a difference as the powerful effects only occur on turn 4+...and well if somethings made it that far, there won't really be much point.

? People can be within 12", heck in assault before you've fired a shot. How do you stop people getting within 24"? I really don't see this list as a viable ninja list.

I see your point that Njal is not optimised in this type of list but he still does a lot for his points IMO.

FlingitNow wrote:heck in assault before you've fired a shot.

Unless you let the person assault you turn 1, no it should not happen.

Unless you let the person assault you turn 1, no it should not happen.

? How do you not let someone assault you on turn 1 wihtout reserving your entire army?

You cut down their avenues of approach, you deploy out of assault range, you block with fast moving Razorbacks (there's 9 in this list, 3 can be used as blockers, just ask the Dark Eldar how they did it for 12 years).

Really, you just have to think a step or two in advance to counter act the biggest threats to thus list.

you deploy out of assault range

? How big are the tables you play on? I normally play on a 6'x4' so turn 1 assaults are possible unless the enemy deploys their entire army within 3" on each corner and I'm guessing it won't fit (there is literally nowhere to hide if doing table quarter deployment).

The other things suggested do not stop the enemy from getting within 24" they just reduce what they within 12" of at best.

the only way that I have seen to get assaulted in turn 1 is to have someone infiltrate shrike, and him roll very good on his fleet move.

I can promise you that that won't happen with this list. the optimal deployment would be to turtle into one corner, provide optimal 4+ cover saves for as many razorbacks as you can, and make sure to line up vehicles in such a way as to prevent out flankers on your side of the board. Again, the deep striking land raider is your worst opponent with this list.

The only deployment that screams assault on Turn 1 is Dawn of War...and that's if you're doing it wrong. Pitched battle, they'll have ~30" to cover on that first turn...Wyches in a Raider might be able to pull that off. If we go to Spearead...well there's no real explanation needed there.

Really, Flingitnow, you keep talking about these turn 1 assaults that will wreck armies. The only real way you will get a turn 1 assault off is with:

1. a scouting unit

2. an infiltrating over 18" threat range unit

3. screwing up deployment in spearhead or dawn of war

All of these can be avoided by you (as the defensive player) not being a dumbass and handing out a t1 assault on a fething platter.


As for the list, I'd swap out njal for more lasplas love, and upgrade the RP to a thunderlord and stick him in fenrisian wolf bubblewrap for lulz

Let's steer away from the turn 1 assault problem and perhaps address the much more likely turn 2 or 3 assault problem. Do you believe that this army could survive such a punch and still be able to drive out and claim an objective or 2 on turn 4 and 5.

The turn 2 or 3 assault can be mitigated by the amount of firepower going down range. Additionally, anything that's going to be in charge rane at that time (with the exception of beasts, calvary and wyches) will be within range of Murderous hurricane and the like which will again slow their advance as they'll be moving as if they're in terrain. This also depends on deployment and foresight of the Wolf player which is why much practice is needed with this kind of list.

With razorspam armies you really need to be good at deploying, because having to redeploy later may cost you the game.

I'd really suggest some fenrisian wolves as bubblewrap, just because no-one uses them so when your opponent sees them in the list he'll be like WTF then you can pull a fast one on him by bubblewrapping like 50" of the board (lol)

One little problem with our puppies is they die so easily...for bubblewrap you might want something with more staying power (granted with a priest they shouldn't run but there's a chance they won't last long) Then again, take Saga of the Wolfkin and surprise the hell out of your opponent when you're like "Those 15 wolves, yeah, they're Initiative 5".

They're tougher than kroot and guardsmen, bear in mind they're the most common bubblewrap you'll see. And they're cheap as chips

I once played a lasplas spam razorwolf army with a wolf priest leading, with saga of the wolfkin. 15 fenrisians bubblewrapping my army, my friend charges in 20 ork boys. Wolves go first, counter attack, reroll hits, kill 14+2 from the priest he was pretty surprised

the only way that I have seen to get assaulted in turn 1 is to have someone infiltrate shrike, and him roll very good on his fleet move.

Shrike infiltrates 18" away and has a minimum 19" assault range assuming he rolls a 1 on his fleet.

Pitched battle, they'll have ~30" to cover on that first turn

All the units I'd consider turn 1 assaulters can either infiltrate and/or scout to within their assault, we're talking units that have a 45" charge range from their deployment spot. See them all the time in my area. Other units granted only have 42" but that is generally enough.

I'm not saying turn 1 assaulters would necessarily cause this army huge problems as with most wolf lists it will handle the charge relatively well due to double arming and counter attack or just feeding the enemy fairly cheap transports. Most proper turn 1 assault units are only great against soft targets and vehicles (unless it is a Shrike Scout build which is useless the minute they don't get first turn, and even if they do you can just ninja as the list will have no staying power). Which is why they tend to suck against puppies as you have no soft targets and your vehciles are mostly just cheap(ish) transports.

I'm just pointing out that saying you'll keep the enemy more than 48" away is naive to say the least. I really think this list if played well could do a lot of damage even when charged. Move the razorbacks up disembark behind cover, rapidfire and fire the plasma on the razor and hit them with eth flamer and then take the charge knowing you'll get 3 attacks each and will probably be going first in most circumstances .

FlingitNow wrote:Shrike infiltrates 18" away and has a minimum 19" assault range assuming he rolls a 1 on his fleet.

All the units I'd consider turn 1 assaulters can either infiltrate and/or scout to within their assault, we're talking units that have a 45" charge range from their deployment spot. See them all the time in my area. Other units granted only have 42" but that is generally enough.

No unit has a 45" charge range. You really need to read rules bud. You're getting cheated everytime you play if you "see them all the time." There is no unit that can charge over 24". Period.

This looks like a fun list to play. Good luck with it.
That being said I would give your grey wolves a special close combat weapon if you can squeeze it in.

gannam wrote:This army is designed as a purely defensive based army.

Check. Definitely achieved

Please, no comments about "wolves shouldn't be played like this". I don't care.

"Wolves shouldn't be played like" that

I will most likely turtle this army up in a board corner and attempt to out shoot all but IG players.

Probably similarly achieved.

This list is designed for maximum cheese factor.

Most definitely achieved.

The only thing that I can see that will give me a ton of problems is land raiders as this army has no melta to speak of.

Correct. As well as fast infantry (Blood Angels for example), Battlewagon Spam (AV 14 and 5+), Imperial Guard and DoA list that includes Vanguard.

The idea is to ignore them and shoot down the rest of the army and then circle back up on them later.

Depending on how many Land Raiders (or monoliths) that will work. However, even a line consisting of 1 Land Raider and 2 Vindicators could cause some problems

HQ: Njal storm caller w/ terminator armor - 270
HQ: rune priest in terminator armor w/ chooser, wolf tail talisman, living lightning, storm caller, master of runes - 185

Why Terminator armour?
Similarly, I'd advise dropping the Master of Runes, Storm Caller and Talisman to save points. Tempests Wrath should serve you much better to avoid enemies that can close quickly with you.

troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150
troops: 5 x grey hunter w/ flamer, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 150

Heavy: long fangs x 5 w missile launcher, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 215
Heavy: long fangs x 5 w missile launcher, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 215
Heavy: long fangs x 5 w missile launcher, razorback w/ las/plas combo - 215

I'd advise dropping a fang from each squad to be able to afford MotW and a 3rd Rune Priest.

I'd also advise getting TL Lascannon's on the Long Fangs Razorbacks as (despite other peoples objections) it's more reliable to strike enemy armour and I don't see why you'd need 9 Plasmaguns instead of 6...

I don't like the list at all and I accept I haven't responded in the best manner, however advice is still there.

No unit has a 45" charge range. You really need to read rules bud. You're getting cheated everytime you play if you "see them all the time." There is no unit that can charge over 24". Period.

I've read the rules have you? I'm not getting cheated I'm the one generally performing a lot of turn 1 charges (but lots of other people do to). Read the rules of scout moves, they are performed before the game and you can move your entire normal movement. So say you're a fast skimmer open topped vehicle with the Scouts USR.

You can scout move 24", then in your first turn you move anothger 12", disembark 3" and then assault 6", giving a total charge range of 45".

Also bikes and deffkopters with scouts can scout 24", move 12" and assault 6" for a 42" charge range in turn 1 (from their point of deployment).

Another unit with a charge range of over 24" is fleet units in fast transports. DE and fleet stuff in Landraiders. In both cases it is possible to gain about 3" just from pivoting, then moving 12", disembarking 3" (4" in the case of Terminators), running 1"-6" and assaulting 6" for a charge range between 25" and 30" (26" and 31" for Terminators). And that threat range is to anything that is side on at any time during the game. Even without the pivot we're talking 22"-27" so still over 24".

I advise you get to play a wider range of opponents there are lots of highly mobile armies in the world of Warhammer 40k. When you start playing competitive competant players you'll realise that turn 1 charges and assaulting units from more than 24" away is not only possible but a pretty frequent occurance.

Infiltrators have to set up 18" away from Choosers of the Slain. If there are 3, that means you're stuck back in your deployment zone. This means those Deffkoptas have to turbo-boost out of their deployment zone, then come charging in...sure, they'll get the assault and wreck 2-3 units, if they're lucky. Scouting fast moving open topped vehicles that can turbo-boost and assault out of...who has those? Certainly not Dark Eldar and well jus about no one else. They have Jetbikes that can Turboboost 36" but no scout move...the fact of the matter is, what CAN assault first turn isn't a big deal. Oh, and the 27" charging Terminators seems like a cool trick, but it pretty much pays off against armies who love being slapped around anyway.

I advise you get to play a wider range of opponents there are lots of highly mobile armies in the world of Warhammer 40k. When you start playing competitive competant players you'll realize that turn 1 charges and assaulting units from more than 24" away is not only possible but a pretty frequent occurance.

First off, Flingit disembark is 2" but that doesnt really matter when you consider that DE can do this:

Deploy 12", Move 12", disembark 2" fleet D6", Charge 6" (and if your opponent doesnt expect thise they will probably be deployed at 12") for a total of 32" if you role a 1 for fleet, and a woppin 37" if you role a 6, assuming your opponent deployed twelve worst case scenario you are in.

Also Emp, even with a 24" Charge range, you can make it across the bored and into combat if your opponent is deployed at 12" anyway.

(please tell me if i did some incorrect math here as it would make my day, i dont wanna be afraid of creepy space elves charing my Ladz!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
First off, Flingit disembark is 2" but that doesnt really matter when you consider that DE can do this:

Deploy 12", Move 12", disembark 2" fleet D6", Charge 6" (and if your opponent doesnt expect thise they will probably be deployed at 12") for a total of 32" if you role a 1 for fleet, and a woppin 37" if you role a 6, assuming your opponent deployed twelve worst case scenario you are in.

Also Emp, even with a 24" Charge range, you can make it across the bored and into combat if your opponent is deployed at 12" anyway.

(please tell me if i did some incorrect math here as it would make my day, i dont wanna be afraid of creepy space elves charing my Ladz!

Only things that can realibly t1 assault are shrike with his infiltrating squad, scouts in a LS storm, and scout bikers. Deldar can do it out of a transport with a good fleet roll.

This is however irrelevant, because you will beat scouts in combat, you can rape shrike with chooser, and deldar can only hit your vehicles and wont do anything to them.

As I have said before, any competent player will note that their opponent has t1 assault units and counter it, either by screening with a sacrificial unit, baiting them with a sacrificial unit so when they kill it hey're standing in the open pissing in the wind, or just deploying a couple of inches back from th baseline.

Scouting fast moving open topped vehicles that can turbo-boost and assault out of...who has those?

Only the most common army in the game...

Oh, and the 27" charging Terminators seems like a cool trick, but it pretty much pays off against armies who love being slapped around anyway.

I'm not saying it is a sure fire way to assault in turn 1, because it requires your opponent being a moron to work or a great fleet roll. He just said no unit can assault over 24" in a turn, I was illustrating how that was possible.

Please name 3 units in the game, and under what one of the basic scenarios that they can assault someone in turn 1.

Deffkopters, Anything jumping out of a Valkyrie, Anything jumkping out of a LSS and all the other things mentioned above...

I think we covered that shrike cannot do it.

What? He infiltrates 18" away and has an assault range of 19" assuming he only rolls a 1 for his run. I think we've covered that he can.

First off, Flingit disembark is 2" but that doesnt really matter when you consider that DE can do this:

Rear of your base has to be within 2" of the vehicle which means front of your base is 3" from the vehicle.

Deploy 12", Move 12", disembark 2" fleet D6", Charge 6" (and if your opponent doesnt expect thise they will probably be deployed at 12") for a total of 32" if you role a 1 for fleet, and a woppin 37" if you role a 6, assuming your opponent deployed twelve worst case scenario you are in.

Ignore the deploy because that is dependant on deployment type. You have to assume you are 24.000...001" apart. They pivot for 3", move 12", disembark 3" run d6" and assault 6", that gives them a range of 25"-30" from their point of deployment. So in pitch battle going directly across the board they can reach 37" to potentially 42" meaning you have only 6" to deploy in, in order that you can guarantee they can't reach you. Or just deploy not directly opposite them...

This is however irrelevant, because you will beat scouts in combat, you can rape shrike with chooser, and deldar can only hit your vehicles and wont do anything to them.

As I have said before, any competent player will note that their opponent has t1 assault units and counter it, either by screening with a sacrificial unit, baiting them with a sacrificial unit so when they kill it hey're standing in the open pissing in the wind, or just deploying a couple of inches back from th baseline.

I've already said that the Turn 1 assaulters wouldn't cause this list a huge problem. 5 Scouts should wreck 2 transports but the contents would then proceed to beat them to death. With my usual 2k fun list I would reasonably expect to wreck 7-9 Razorbacks (with 3-4 coming from turn 1 assaulters) in turn 1 if I went first. If I went 2nd I'd have severe problems with this list and even if I went first I'd need to take out 8-9 razorbacks to be favourite. Obviously you could screen with your Grey hunters, in squads of 5 the Scouts would be favourite but killing 2 GH squads wouldn't damage your army enough to make it really worth while.

Modquisition on:
Guys lets refocus on the actual list and less on 1st Turn charges.