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See tittle.

I know with the latest Guard edition you can't choose doctrines anymore (which is a pity), but I just started work on a second guard army. The idea came from reading gaunt's ghosts. They will look very similar to the tanith.

But, I need some help how to pull that off game wise. It's gonna be a fluffy army meant for friendly games. (With a situational tournament here and there). Now the fluff behind them restricts me to only Sentinels as a form of heavier support to include in my army.

so...I need dakka to give me advice. as to what heavy/special weapons to take. and what units to certainly take and which not.

Penal legion is a no go. They can be a real Liability. With the desperados rule and the fact I can't take special weapons on them.

Heavy weapons are to be included in squads of three, not in the basic infantry squads. That would not be very light (ish) ey?

so...Tactics please!

Thank you in advance.

all-infantry armies are plenty viable. They generally revolve around infantry platoons forming up in combined squads around commissars with either a bunch of special weapons or a bunch of power weapons. If you want sneakiness and outflanking, taking al'rahem is an excellent option for sneaky boot lists. Also, consider creed for twice the outflanking fun.

As for what weapons, take stuff that is S8 or better and/or ignores armor. The rest should just sort of fall into place.

You can go here to see some of my experiences with foot-heavy guard. Especially note the last game in which I didn't even use vehicles (nor will I for my upcoming battle report a couple of days from now).

Well there is a lot to be had here, you're a little vague about what you want or don't want in your army.

As far as fluff goes in my head your looking at lots of rattlings in your elites. Storm troopers are heavy infantry, ogryns should be obvious, and pyskers are pushing it a little for what they would demand, and how slow they would move (they all have staffs for a reason). Troops wise your probably armed with sniper rifles, grenade launchers, and melta as a maybe. Go for veteran because you can take camo cloaks which fits nicely with your guant's ghosts basis. Heavy weapons are going to be missiles, because you could carry one and fire it from your shoulder, and maybe mortars. If it takes a tripod to set up it's probably heavier than what you want. Sentinels are decent, depending upon what you want them to do. Consider Valkyries for the idea of light paratroops which is fluffy enough with serious game potential. Heavy slots are going to be hard. Most things in the heavy area are just that, heavy. You have the choice between a five pound sledge hammer at the smallest, and a 30 pound one at the most. If you had to choose fluffiest is going to be self propelled guns, probably the griffon, but you could make a case for hydras or even a leman russ though it has lumbering behemoth which speaks greatly against light troops. Knowing more about play style and where you want this army to go will help to narrow it down

Hope this helps.

With the army theme that your going for I would advise against using Platoons.

Instead, as TAB suggested, opt for Veterans w/ camo-cloaks and melta/grenade launcher as the core of your force. Normally I would advise against the inclusion of GLs in Vet squads, but your theme suits them quite nicely as they are a very mobile weapon. The Infiltrator rule is also quite cool in that it allows you to set up after your opponent, and in some heavy terrain to boot.

A Lord Commisar is obviously a must (to represent Gaunt) and with regards your heavy weaponry I'd probably go with missile launchers as fluff and damage-wise, they are pretty damn nice. You may struggle slightly through lack of BiD but hey, this is a friendly list so no need to smash face.

Relying on Sentinels for support is...dubious. Especially as (I assume) you'll be picking the Scout variety? AV10, open-topped doesn't live very long, but at least you'll get the opportunity to fire seeing as you'd be outflanking with them. Another vote for Griffon batteries as long-range support, they're fluffy and quite accurate as well, they only really lack in AP (which is nullified mostly via cover anyway).

L. Wrex

thanks guys. Ailaros, I swa your lists before. And that's not what I am looking for. Try again Bragg was closer. I was thinking the same thing. 4 or 5 squads with camo cloaks and snare mines, with the odd missile launcher. Then I will take El rahem (maybe) to outflank the enemy with at least 3 infantry squads with flamers and meltas. Heavy weapons squads may be in the form of autocannons. Excelent for dealing with lightly armoured vehicles of heavy infantry. Mortars are definatly going to be in the list. I never leave without them. I now everybody says they're crap, But they always worked out good for me. For example, killing 11 close packed orks with three mortar shot, or killing a reduced 4 man Marine squad who were about to take an objective, etc. The griffons might be a go. I have a pair of 'em. But they are painted in grey urban camo. But hey, it isn't likely for light infantry specializing in woodland warefare to have a dozen of the big mortars around.

Hope this is more specific.

I tend more toward a mix of Mech and Infantry myself, but for my Light Infantry builds I bring things like Ogryn (for linebacker duty), Sentinals (mobile weapon platforms, usually flanking), HW squads and Infantry Platoons with 3 squads (Commissar in one squad, Autocannon and GL in each line squad)... I had some good luck with the Commissar Lord for the LD 10 bubble to make orders a bit easier... But not sure how (if at all) this fits your desired theme...

As mentioned an Air Cav approach with a Vendetta/Valkyrie and something like a PCS loaded out with flamers is a pretty effective way to throw out a bunch of wounds onto something...

Whoo didn't see that there wrex. Simoultaneous posting

with that infiltrator rule, you mean the sentinals right. I don't think that forward sentries could infiltrate.

Stormtroopers. It could be possible if I take them with special opperations:

-Reconnaissance: giving the scouts and move through cover

- Behind enemy lines: giving them Infiltrate and they're first shots count as pinning.

with both of the special operations I do not need to deep strike them.

They have hotshots, but the sniper elements of the tanith have that as well. There increased BS value could mean I could use them as an elite Tanith Sniper team behind enemy lines, or as the elite Scout elements of the tanith moving trough cover.

The only thing about the stormtropers not fitting in the army is the fact they have carapace armour. Hmmm...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

pchappel wrote:I tend more toward a mix of Mech and Infantry myself, but for my Light Infantry builds I bring things like Ogryn (for linebacker duty), Sentinals (mobile weapon platforms, usually flanking), HW squads and Infantry Platoons with 3 squads (Commissar in one squad, Autocannon and GL in each line squad)... I had some good luck with the Commissar Lord for the LD 10 bubble to make orders a bit easier... But not sure how (if at all) this fits your desired theme...

As mentioned an Air Cav approach with a Vendetta/Valkyrie and something like a PCS loaded out with flamers is a pretty effective way to throw out a bunch of wounds onto something...

thanks for the input, But as you said, that doesn't fit well with the fluff of the army.

I stand by my statement that if it has a tripod its probably to heavy. Autocannons seem out of place given how you have to set them up on a tripod and carry heavy ammo. I know try again bragg in Guant's ghosts uses one, but he is suppose to represent a giant of a man. Most light infantry are not massive, thus two men, the tripod, the massive weapon, big ammo, just doesn't seem to fit.

You seem to be trying to outflank rather then hit and run from distance. That throws out rattlings. Ogryn are not fast and light by any means, and storm troopers are big heavy infantry, genetically modified to be big. Pyskers may be the best option for you if you hide them in a valkyrie. Otherwise they won't get to where their needed fast enough. Al rahem would fit your strategy, but doesn't fit guant. Thats a your choice thing. If you give everyone a camo cloak and either put them in an outflanking vehicle, or they infiltrate, or finally they outflank themselves, then you should be good. The only odd ball will be the griffons, but the heavier support is going to be necessary, and they are somewhat lightish. Take a lot of them because their cheep and come in squads. Give them camo netting and you can justify their place in the army.

so, you're asking questions about a strictly fluffy list... in a tactics forum?

Tactically, just taking vets alone with no other mass infantry support or vehicles of any kind is just going to see you lose a lot of games. The correct tactics for this are to change your list so that you have the tools needed to actually win games.

If you just want to know what fluff, without regards to it even being remotely competitive on the field, then just take a bunch of vets and stormies, and nothing else. If you want tactical advice, though, you're going to have to be willing to sacrifice some on fluff.

I am very fond on the idea with griffons with camo netting.

You just threw the idea of autocannons out of the window... But i could still group them in Heavy weapons squads.

I could justify the use of El Rahem by just naming him Scout sergeant Mkoll. That would be more fitting for Gaunt.

just for rules clarification, can veterans with camo cloaks Infiltrate?

Ailaros, I am not taking Vets only, They will be supported by some griffons, and outflanking scout sentinals.

I do not believe vets get infiltrate, they get stealth.

I'm not absolutely killing autocannons. But consider they are suppose to be the equivalent of a medium anti tank gun. That doesn't sound like light infantry.

if your going with a gaunt's ghost theme the HWT of choice has got to be ML's "treadfethers"

Yeah, Overal the missile launchers will be the best choice, fluff wise. They can also pack a real punch.

So for the heavy weapon squad choices I Can either get missile launchers or mortars.

Supported by the griffons.

Special weapons: Fluff wise, I think flamers are the best choice. Whith all Tanith squads having a flamer expert in their squad. But game wise, I think the melta gun might be better. Stronger and with an AP of one, they should take care of most tanks, and even some hard enemies.

Meltas'll be my best choice right?

Ill try and right up a list tonight, or probably tommorow. I'll post a link here to the Army List forum.

If you just want to know what fluff, without regards to it even being remotely competitive on the field, then just take a bunch of vets and stormies, and nothing else. If you want tactical advice, though, you're going to have to be willing to sacrifice some on fluff.

I have to disagree. The problem is, you have to transfer your fluff to a competitive army. So you have to compare your fluff idea with the rules and then put down your own style of army based on your own fluff and the rules. If you manage to merge your own fluff into your tactical thoughts you will be hard to beat.

That's why I play Creed!