Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Ok so if you run a SM army with both Chapter Masters in it do elements of both of their "Chapter Tactics" abilities work together?

Khan "all units in your army exchange the Combat Tactics special rule for the ability to outflank."

He'stan "all units in your army lose the Combat Tactics special rule"

So my question is how does it play?

For example: If I choose Khan's ability, my army exchanges Combat Tactics for Outflank... Ok, but now because I have He'stan also , all Flamers, and Meltaguns are still twin-linked?

I think only one of the two chapter tactics would work in an army. IIRC the wording for each characters' chapter tactics say that they must give up the normal tactic to gain the special one. As such you can't give up the samething twice. So you would have to choose at the begining of the battle which tactic you are going to use.

Need to pick one for each squad in your army example if I run Vulkan and Strike and am using a squad of TH/SS termies I can use either MC thunders or fleet BUT not both .... You need to declare before games begin which squads with chapter tactics rule has what are using whos bonuses

Holycrusader27 wrote:Need to pick one for each squad in your army example if I run Vulkan and Strike and am using a squad of TH/SS termies I can use either MC thunders or fleet BUT not both .... You need to declare before games begin which squads with chapter tactics rule has what are using whos bonuses

This seems to contradict what the special rule says. "All units give up combat tactics for ability x." It does not say pick and choose. Only one character would be able to use their special ability. As stated above, once you give up tactics you cannot give it up again.

So it's which squad follow's which Chapter Tactic, or is it army wide?

I'm glad I'm not the only one confused on how this works...

Only 1, pick it and stick with it, army wide.

Leo is correct. Only one of the 'Chapter Tactics' can be used, for the whole army. Every unit, including the masters, give up combat tactics in exchange for the chapter tactics, which, for reasons stated above, can only be done once.

Chapter Tactics is a special rule that applies to the entire army. If you have more than one character with a version of Chapter Tactics, you have to choose which applies. As it applies to the entire army, then choosing which one applies decides which one applies to the whole army.

You can't pick and choose squad by squad.

Also, this is addressed in the GW faq. http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m2250129_FAQ_SpaceMarines_Nov2009

Vulkan and Shrike are the examples. This is how I play it as well, for all the chapter masters.

The reason I ask is that the LGS runs Double Tourney's and they stated that the first sentence of Chapter Tactics is what changes. But if you look at He'stan, and Kahn Chapter tactics, the way they are worded, you either exchange Chapter Tactics or lose it, then you get all this other stuff (i.e. Twin linked flamers, outflank to dedicated transports) that affected your buddies army too. Their reason is because of the wording, and per my LGS, after the first sentence explaining what do do with Combat Tactics, on these two characters it's not a Chapter Tactic rule anymore, it's an ability that affects army wide.

Now that's ok for the store, but I wanted to know how does the rest of Dakka plays it, so that if I play elsewhere I'm not confused.

Even though the wording is different its the same effect. If you exchange combat tactics with special toon A for his abilities, you can no longer loose combat tactics for special toon B's abilities to work. Being that it's a doubles tournament there will be a lot of house rules and things will be made up. Which is fine. But for overall play you cannot use both of these abilities in the same army.

We just did a doubles tourny. One of the caveats for each team is any special rules (Chapter tactics, IG Orders, WAAAGH, the new DE pain tokens, etc) may NOT be used by your partners Army. Check with your LGS to see if that applies.
The C:SM is also pretty explicit where it says if your running multiple Masters you can only pick one set of Tactics to use.

Melchiour wrote:This seems to contradict what the special rule says. "All units give up combat tactics for ability x." It does not say pick and choose. Only one character would be able to use their special ability. As stated above, once you give up tactics you cannot give it up again.

Actually, in does stipulate in their entry for "Chapter Tactics" that "if more than 1 character in your army has the Chapter Tactics special rule, you must choose which version to apply".

That is a quote straight out of the C:SM, all under Kantor, Lysander, He'stan, Shrike, and Khan.

Yes, you need to pick which one applies to your army. Unless the rule says you may pick for each unit.

The rule is supposed to represent the special abilities that a commander brings to a conflict. Seeing as how you can only have one commander, then you can only have one ability.

As far as doubles, it is the same thing. That's why you have Force Commanders, and the like...

Chapter tactics are single use army wide, you may not use 2, and you may not mix and match. SHENANIGANS!

To answer the original question: "Can VULKAN HE'STAN & KOR'SARRO KHAN get along?"

No, they cannot. They were stuck in a Rhino together once. After only a few minutes, they had drawn a big line down the middle of the rhino like a poorly written sitcom. Ever since then, all they ever do is bicker.