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So here's my first crack at a list with the new book. I love what I am reading in this thing, so many options and such great execution.

Anyway, here's the list:

Unit Description Size Cost
HQ
Baron Sathonyx 1 105

Troops
Warriors S.Cannon, Venom, S.Cannon 6 120
Warriors S.Cannon, Venom, S.Cannon 6 120
Wychs Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet and Impaler x 2, Raider 11 210
Wychs Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet and Impaler x 2, Raider 11 210
Hellions Helliarch, Agoniser 20 345

Elites
Kabalite Trueborn Blaster x 4, Raider 5 168
Kabalite Trueborn Blaster x 4, Raider 5 168
Kabalite Trueborn Blaster x 4, Raider 5 168

Fast Attack
Reavers Heat Lance 3 78

Heavy Support
Ravager 1 105
Ravager 1 105
Ravager 1 105

Totals 76 2007


So I need to shave 7 points, the first thing that jumps out at me is the Reavers, they aren't really necessary to the list but the models are cool.

I chose the Baron because to me (without having played them) he seems a clear winner in terms of HQ. He gives the HUGELY important +1 to go first which DE need and makes Hellions fantastic all for a crazy low points cost. The big unit of Hellions can take on a wide variety of units and stand a good chance of destroying them through volume of attacks. With skilled rider, hit and run and an agoniser 20 deep in bodies, they can be a hugely useful tool. The only concern I have is that the unit can get easily run down if they flub an assault.

The Wyches are the other aspect of the assault element. Wyches go after vulnerable elements like Long Fangs and such. With their 4++, agoniser and shardnets they can also engage powerful assault units and tar pit them for a while.

The true born and ravagers are anti MEQ/Mech.

The Warriors are small, fast scoring units and anti infantry.

The army packs speed, a ton of anti mech firepower, fair anti infantry and enough assault to give shooting armies tourble and to keep assault armies off my back. Plus, the all important +1 to go first which really counts with an army like this.

So, any glaring weaknesses? Comments? Critiques?

I will have to agree with removing the reavers. with 70 points left you could get some vehicle upgrades or something along those lines

Yeah, that is what I was thinking. I am really not sold on any of the upgrades though. Maybe increase a warrior squad to 10 and upgrade their ride to a Raider.

The Reavers are more a point filler.
Not sure about the performance of the Hellions.
They seem to have improved in the new codex.
I used them in the old codex (as a point filler) and was never impressed by their performance.

As people have said, drop reavers. I would add more numbers to your squads if there are room. I think you are wasting the Baron a bit. I would had used atleast two hellion units. Give more thoughts about this?
Or are you only using him to get a very cheap HQ? Which is rather smart.

Warriors S.Cannon, Venom, S.Cannon 6 120
Wychs Hekatrix, Agoniser, Shardnet and Impaler x 2, Raider 11 210

6.. what? 6 Warriors don't fit in a venom, same 11 doesn't fit in a raider. I am confused by your army list layout :S

The vehicle is included in the overall number for the unit Thorheim.

Reecius this is a solid list, though I'm not sure how you plan to move 20 hellions across the board, their save isn't great and if you hug terrain the whole way even with skilled rider you will probably lost quite a few. Even with Stealth + cover they will die heavily to bolter fire. I don't think they are as good as they seem on paper.

I use a list very similiar and have had good results, but I have wracks instead of wyches for my CC and I have more warrior squads in Venoms instead of Hellions. See my Blog for details Ghostlight

Ok, needed that clarification!
And now that you point it out, it's quite obvious

@wileythenord
You make excellent points about the wracks. Wyches at first glance seem to have more kill power and certainly more reach, but with IC support Wrack are not far off.

The Baron is there only for the +1 to go first and he is cheap. The large squad of hellions puts out a ton of flak firepower and can assault fairly well, however, they are a flight risk at ld9. Perhaps giving him a small squad simply to hijack IC's out of quad would be better and save a ton of points.

That frees up room for the Homunculi and a squad of Wracks for dedicated objective taking.

Good suggestions everyone, thank you. I will rework the list.

Hey,
not a bad list all in all, however:

I would add flickerfields to all the ravagers to give them that slightly longer lifespan.
also, im afraid you can't have a splinter cannon in a 5 man warrior squad (10 man minimum)

Have seen quite a few lists using the baron, must really read his rules to see what all the fuss is about

Looks like a great starting point. Some thoughts:

The Hellions are so underwhelming, and they're definitely expensive points wise for what you get out of them stats/wargear wise. I was interested in them because I like Sarthonyx a lot, but in my testing so far they're been really sub par. I haven't been running a huge unit like this, but there are so many things you can have for the points you would normally spend on them. They're cool as a cheap, quick scoring unit that will probably be ignored all game so they can snag objectives late on, but their actual killing power is pretty low and their resilience is awful. If you're looking for the unit that can break a game with a properly placed and timed charge then check out Incubi. You won't get great results with them in straight fights with enemy CC units (but nothing in the DE book will stand toe to toe with things like Thunderwolves or Nobs) but they can pick on these units once they've sustained some damage and get them off the table. They get very frightening with FNP/FC as well. You lose a unit of Trueborn to take them which is extremely rough, but you can get those 4 lance weapons back elsewhere in the list pretty easily.

The Baron's modifier is pretty nice, but he's not going to get you first turn as often as you might expect. It's a bit like the Emperor's Tarot. I think Haemonculi are much better as HQs since they can make your scoring units much more resilient to small arms and if need be help protect your Wyches and Trueborn (Wyches with FNP/FC are really good). You can cram so much stuff into your force organization chart and do serious damage with 1/2 your army when it enters from reserves. I don't think going second hurts new DE as much as it hurt the old book. I really don't think that going second is a losing situation for Dark Eldar against most things.

I'd also pehraps look into Razorwings instead of Ravagers (blasphemy I know). I haven't gotten to test the Razorwings yet but you're only losing 1 Lance compared to the Ravagers while gaining Supersonic and 4 very powerful anti-troop missiles. THese missiles are great against things like Lootas that can hide in the bakfield and sling lots of high str firepower at your fragile transports. I'm really not sure if the Razorwings are the way to go over the Ravagers, I haven't tested it, but they seem pretty neat for their ability to get to backfield fire support quickly and pile wounds on it all at once.

As for Wyches.... they're str3. They get a bunch of attacks but unless they roll +1str drug or you can manage to off two units with them pretty quick, they're not going to be too good in CC. They're moderately survivable with that 4++ in CC but they're still T3, which is bad. I'd absolutely check out Wracks if you can take a Haemonculus to make them troops. I've had great results with units of Wracks in Raiders with Liquifier Guns. They're good crowd control and better able to wound things T4+ because their CC attacks are poisoned. They're standard with FNP and T4 as well, which are nice bonuses. Wracks work great in combination with Wyches as the Wracks can tarpit things and hold them in place for the Wyches to finish off.

I think you're on the right track for sure, you've got the basic form of the list worked out with the Trueborns and Ravagers. I like the Reavers a lot as well (I'm playing 3 units of 3 currently) as cheap road blocks/cover save generators/melta lance shots.

Hmm. Couple things.

1) As said, add Flickerfields. The 5++ really is amazing to have, and at 10 pts is a steal.

2) Not sure about the whole Hellion thing. Honestly, I don't use them because they die fairly easy and aren't altogether that fast compared to other DE squads. If you don't go first, you're in fairly deep trouble, and I know I personally don't like basing my entire list around a single roll.

@Darcona
Ah yes, thanks for pointing that out. No splinter cannons on 5 man squad. I'll have to re work that.

I am just not sold on flickerfields. a 5++ jut isn't going to do much. Most anti tank squads in the game now have multiple shots: fangs, fire dragons, auto cannon squads, etc. Statistically, that flickerfield is highly unlikely to pay for itself. I would rather have more raiders than marginally more resilient raiders.

Improving your odds to go first for nearly any list is huge. Especially for an alpha strike army. Without having played yet, I think that baron is such a huge benefit as he increases your odds of going first to 66% which is a significant advantage. Plus, with his 2++ he can tarpit units like MC's and is a great throwaway unit.

@Caffran9
Ye, the more I read about Hellions, the less I like what I hear. Just going over their stats, a unit that size can pump out a large amount of flak for horde armies and has a lot of attacks. That plus the speed means they can tie up troublesome units. Not being fearless though, can mean they just end up dying. I think running the baron with just a small squad or even on his own may be wiser.

The baron is better than the tarot. There is no chance of accidentally benefiting the other player. In a 5 game tournament, he should allow you to go first once more than average, which can be the difference between winning and losing. While I agree that going first is not mandatory, I don't think anyone will argue that increasing your odds to choose to go first or second isn't incredibly useful. I use Bjorn in my tournament wolves for just that reason and find that the benefit is huge when you build a list around it.

Razorwings do seem cool, but I can't justify spending more points for less firepower. That plus the Razorwing will be on a flyer base which means it will be very hard to get cover. Again, without having played both, I can't say conclusively, but strictly by the numbers it seem a clear choice.

I do agree that you must be able to take on large numbers of infantry, that is fundamental to a good tournament list, but in the DE lit I see specialization to be the word of the day. I am actually looking at scourges a they can put out an incredible amount of mobile flak.

I am definitely drinking the wrack kool-aide. At least one squad of them. Running the numbers they are just more reliable than wyches and a you said taking a combination of both is probably a good idea as they can compliment one another so well.

It' funny, after looking around the web for lit idea after making my first impression list, it seem a lot of people are thinking the same things. Although anyone who has played the game long enough typically can spot winners in a new dex fairly quickly.

@vishra
I agree that the hellions may not be a wise investment after hearing what others have said. The baron though is not setting up the list to revolve around his roll, merely to help you choose to go first or second which is hugely beneficial.

I think the Hellions are a great idea. In my extremely limited playtesting I've found a squad of 10-15 is perfect. 20 is simply to large to manuever (think gargoyles) but a smaller unit is pretty solid. Start them with a Haemon who leaves to join another unit and you've got a unit that should have a 3+ cover/4+ FnP. That's extremely survivable and pretty hard hitting depending on your drug.

I'd probably shave the squad size down a bit. I'd use those points to turn the warriors into Wracks and add a Haemon. I've got a couple of Baron lists on my blog and as a heads up I think your really missing out by not using beast units. They are just nasty. Drop the reavers as they aren't nearly as effective as you'd like them to be at that size. I'd probably shave a single trueborn w/blaster off each squad as well. 3 is more than enough generally and another 81pts could get you some good stuff.

Just some thoughts.

They caught my eye right off the bat for their speed and firepower. With the Baron they have o many really useful abilities. I guess it will come down to trying some things out, really.

Yeah, the reavers are the weakest link, no doubt. Without more of them, they are just an easy target.

I think shaving a trueborn might be wise but I tend to roll like gak! Haha, I like to maximize my odds!

The Hamonc looks like a winner too, that pain token can be huge espeically for a big unit like the hellions.

What list are you thinking about running, Brad?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
NM, jut read your blog. Solid list, I like it.

Also, and this is point heavy as hell, but I was thinking Vect and the Baron with a balls out shooty alpha strike list. That give you crazy odds to pull off the Alhpa trike every time. A bit of a gambler's army, but man could it be effective. Just that one time in a tournament when it doesn't work and you get hosed could ruin your day!