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I'm just beginning to learn WFB. I'm an experienced 40k player, but have yet to play my first WFB game. I've decided on WoC for my army choice, and I've asked around for some list ideas. Here is what I was given:

50 mauraders
mark of khorne, great weapons, full command [300]

50 mauraders
mark of khorne, great weapons, full command [300]

24 warriors
mark of tzeentch, shields, full command, rapturous standard [444]

Exalted Hero BSB
mark of tzeentch, halberd, talisman of preservation (4+ ward save) [194]

3 hellcannons [615]

total = 1853 points.

So there are obvious problems with this list. First and foremost, there is no General. The Exalted Hero BSB specifically states that if he is a BSB he can't be the armies General (WoC Codex page 50). The second problem I see if the lack of fast moving units (warmachine hunters is the term I've heard coined). Thirdly, there are no Magic Users, but the presence of 3 Hellcannons might have something to do with that. Lastly, I have 147 points to play with.

I'm looking for ideas here, and would be happy for people ideas and opinions (advantages of mounting heroes, etc).
I'm a fan of Magic Users, and love the Chaos Magic choices. I'm very fond of Demon Princes, so I could see trying to fit one into the army.
I like Hellcannons, but I think three is overkill (and possibly illegal).
I'd like to fit a Warshrine in, unless people can convince me they are a bad choice.
I'd like to find room for some Chaos Knights, and/or Chaos Warhounds, as tie-up units.

Here's what I have in models to work with (though I'm not afraid to buy more with good reasons):
104 Marauders
24 Warriors
1 Exalted Hero (can be mounted or not)
10 Chaos Knights
4 Sorcerers
2 Hellcannons
1 Warshrine
10 Marauder Horsemen
20 Chaos Warhounds

Thanks in advance for your advice and hints.

So yes, triple hellcannons is illegal at 2000 points, as you can only have double rares below 3000. Though two is pretty mean too.

If I might toss this up, here's a very basic tweak of your list:

L: Sorcerer Lord - level 4, talisman of preservation = 315

H: Exalted Hero - MoT, BSB, talisman of endurance, halberd = 179

C: 22 Warriors - MoT, rapturous standard, full command, shields = 422
C: 50 Marauders - MoK, full command, great weapons = 300
C: 50 Marauders - MoK, full command, great weapons = 300
C: 5 Warhounds = 30
C: 5 Warhounds = 30

R: Hellcannon = 205
R: Hellcannon = 205
--------
1986

The only change was to drop the illegal hellcannon and two warriors (with lord + BSB will always stand with them so make up full ranks again) to buy some puppies for versatility - NOT for holding people up, just messing with them or pouncing on war machines - and fund the level 4 caster. There are of course other lord options, but this one lets you get the feel for the magic system and is the 'safest' and 'best' so seems a good place to start. Since he has access to a range of magic lores you can play around and see how they boost the army in different ways.

With the last 14 points I would pick a 10 point item or a couple 5 pointers for the characters - maybe biting blade on the lord and ironcurse on the BSB? So as to have a few magical attaks and a 5+ ward for the warrior deathstar vs artillery.

- Salvage

Thanks Boss Salvage.

Questions for you then:
Is there a huge advantage of 50 Marauders vs 40? I mean it only gains me back 50 points per Horde, but that's 100 points total I could spend elsewhere.
What is the advantage over a Sorc Lord vs a level 4 Demon Prince? (other than cost).
Am I at a disadvantage without a Warshrine? Reducing each Marauder horde by 10 and dropping one Squad of Warhounds would buy one.
Are Giants or Dragon Ogre Shaggoth's worth putting in an army?
Am I missing any valuable elements from this army?
Will this army be at a disadvantage against another particular army, and if so, why?

Thanks in advance for your time and ponderings

Mizzri wrote:Questions for you then:
Is there a huge advantage of 50 Marauders vs 40? I mean it only gains me back 50 points per Horde, but that's 100 points total I could spend elsewhere.

Remember - a horde needs a minimum of 30 figures to be effective. Striking last with the GW, the Marauders will take 8-12 casualties in each round of combat before getting to strike. 50 figures provides 2 rounds of combat before the unit starts to fall apart. Given that the Marauders will be dishing out 8-12 casualties per turn, most elite units should be destroyed after 2 rounds of fighting - makes 50 just about perfect.

Aside from that - I've found opponents like to focus shooting and magic on the huge Marauder unit. They are so much easier to kill than the Warriors. Having 50 helps keep them combat ready for a bit longer.

Taking the ironcurse on the BSB is a great idea... giving the warriors a 5+ ward vs. artillery is going to direct more firepower away from them and into your marauders, who can afford to take some losses.

I like the list a lot as-is, you could consider dropping a hellcannon (people might look at you funny for bringing 2 in some settings) to pick up a different rare choice. Giant and Shaggoths are fun and scary, and the Shaggoth especially will draw a lot of fire- although he might not live long. However, that's less fire going into your blocks.

This is a scary list. I'm not sure what I'd do against it. But Boss_Salvage is spot-on in adding in the level 4 caster. It'll help a lot since it's the only ranged thing you'll have besides the hellcannon(s).

OK, so here's my current list: Total is 1931 points. I'm looking for advice on what to spend the last 69 points on.

50 Marauders [300]
Great Weapons, MoK, Full Command

50 Marauders [300]
Great Weapons, MoK, Full Command

Sorcerer Lord [315]
Level 4, Tasliman of Preservation

Exalted Hero [184]
MoT, BSB, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon, Halberd

22 Warriors of Chaos [422]
MoT, Rapturous Standard, Full Command, Shields

1 Hellcannon [205]
1 Hellcannon [205]

With 69 points left over, what should I buy:
Magic Armour for BSB
Magic Weapon for BSB
Misc Magic Item for Sorc or BSB
Mount for BSB
Mark for Sorcerer
Spell Familiar, Infernal Pupper, Third Eye of Tzeetch for Sorcerer
Ruby Ring of Ruin for Sorcerer
Add 10 Chaos Warhournds

I might add a dragon hat for the BSB (I would want a 3+ save on that lad) and maybe a spell familiar for the Sorc. After that, I think you have enough points for some war hounds. Infernal puppet might be better than the spell familiar, but will cost you some puppies.

Since you're new to fantasy I'd put the warhounds back in so you can learn some subtler tactics and have some fast, throwaway, swiftstriding units in what is otherwise a big sack of destruction. I didn't say it the first time but this is an absolutely brutal list for 2k, with its main weakness probably being its limited number of units - i.e. nothing to flank in when your blocks engage his blocks in the front. Though your blocks are also damn uber, with hellcannon and magic support to tip the balance further.

I'd still probably toss the biting blade on the level 4 with the extra points, though charmed shield on him is another possibility (3/4+ save dropping the first hit? Not too shabby!)

- Salvage

This list is absolutely brutal... I agree about putting the hounds in to give you something to move around with, and getting a charmed shield on that caster.

I'd leave him without a mark and pick one of the rulebook lores to give him (it needs to go on your army list in 8th edition).

You will tear face in some games with this list! Honestly, I don't know how I would beat it... it would pretty much rip my trolls and company apart as far as I can tell . Good for a tournament where you're going up against similar levels of nastiness, I think!

I take it Lore of Tzeetch isn't very well regarded? I certainly like Lore of Fire, but haven't had a good look at the others. I honestly figured I would take Lore of Tzeetch, but it doesn't make much sense to have to buy a Mark just to get access to a Lore.

I'm thinking about putting the Warhounds back in. Are they as good as Marauder Horsemen?

Back to adjusting this list:

50 Marauders [300]
Great Weapons, MoK, Full Command

50 Marauders [300]
Great Weapons, MoK, Full Command

Sorcerer Lord [335]
Level 4, Tasliman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Spell Familiar

Exalted Hero [184]
MoT, BSB, Talisman of Endurance, Ironcurse Icon, Halberd

22 Warriors of Chaos [422]
MoT, Rapturous Standard, Full Command, Shields

1 Hellcannon [205]
1 Hellcannon [205]

8 Chaos Warhounds [48]

Total points: 1999


Question: Is the 2nd Hellcannon really worth it? OR would those points be better spent on 5 Chaos Knights?

I also really like the list, keep the cannon

shadow is really nice on a lvl 4 w 5 spells

death could also work Tzeentch has two of the best spells in the game - Treason and Pandemonium! well worth the 20 points plus it bumps your ward

if you deploy properly you should be able to cover the flanks of your anvil fairly well

good luck!

cheers
Papasmurf

Is lack of a Magic Weapon going to hurt me? Someone mentioned to me recently that I might have a hard time dealing with Etheals or models immune to normal weapons. I'm wondering if I should drop 2 Warhounds and give my Sorc Lord and BSB a 5-point Magic Weapon each.

I wouldn't worry about it. There are only a few units that can't be wounded by normal weapons, and while Wood Elf forest spirit 5+ wards can be negated by a magic weapon it really isn't the end of the world.

Also, since spell damage is magical you can deal direct damage that way.

Just as good though, most ethereal critters are in really small units, so you can just CR them to death with a block it seems. I might not be thinking of a particular unit that will have more than 1-2 ranks, but in general your marauders should be able to just roll over them after your sorc zaps a few.