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I'm need'n some tips for killing enemy armor, mainly land riders. Me and some pals have gotten together and made a shire to geekdom map that we're now fighting for control over. Very Starwars Battlefront esk. But Whatever that's not the point.

I've played a bunch of games and other then throwing rokkits all over the place, major luck with'a stokk gun, and a Warboss's PK I really don't have any idea how to deal with armor 14 vehicles. Tankbustas are a bust, they just get shot to gak running around chasing the armor, I've fielded them 3 times in various sizes and have yet to see anything but a ridiculous amount of jogging. Also tried a Looted Wagon trick (12 tankbustas + 1 looted wagon with 2 rokkits, it almost helps deal with the glory hogs rule but gets broke real easy) , which was really cool to imagine 14 rokkits flying out of some cruddy old tank (twice) but they didn't do jack.

So I ask you, oh knowledgeable minds of the interwebs, to help me.
How the hell do you kill the heavy stuff. Land raiders, Demonically possessed Land Raiders, or a mighty wall of IG armor?

Also another question pertaining to rules that I need some info on. Lets say you have a squad of boyz with a nob with a PK. Now If I charge a tank with this squad what is the Nobs STR when Furious Charge factors in? Is it (4+1)x2 = 10 or (4x2)+1=9?

Ok first off on the easy one:
Furious charge ir (2*4)+1=9

Onto popping armour:
By the sounds of it you are running a foot slogging orks? When you take a truck you need to take a few of them if you expect them to survive for a few turns.

Personally CC is the best place for orks to pop armour, tank hammer and the PK are the best at it, in that order, also have you tried squi bombs? if you have no armour ATM, then they add a 18" threat range.

When I played orks and I need anti-armour I used 6 or so tank bustas (half with hammers) and a squig bomb in a truck. Yes it was going to die, but it got me close enough to let loose the squig and plus the rest of my army was thundering towards the enemy, giving them bigger problems to think about other then the tank busters.

Try deffkoptas with buzzsaw, nob bikers, Zzap gun and squig bombs.

I've tryed Bomb-squigs which were worth a laugh but didn't do anything with their S8 on the AV 14. And one of the main problems I'm running into is if/when the tankbustas get close enough to threat'n a tank they just get shot to hell. The 6+ armor T-shirts just don't cut it and in their small numbers they just get wiped or run away.

I had thought of piling them into a trukk and turning them loose my it's my understanding that you can only put yer troops in a trukk, not elites. Thus the Looted wagon build.

But still the tankhammer might be worth looking into. I put it out of my mind considering I figured the Tankbusta Bombs would be better for CC. So you know... might as well keep them with a fancy rokkit launcher since they ave fancy nades.

But ya... without large numbers they just get cut down.

And thanks for the PK info. Why doesn't the +1 Str factor in though?

Now... nob bikers/Zzap guns.... you might be on to something there.

TheH4XIncarnate wrote:
And thanks for the PK info. Why doesn't the +1 Str factor in though?

PF doubles the users base strength. Is why.

Becouse you always times(x) before you add(+) with bonuses, so its x2 then +1.

On the trukk thing, you can buy the trukk for boyz but they don't have to use it. Have the boys start on the table and have the tank bustas deploy next to it and then jump in turn one. Boarding plank and grabba stick are always good for tank hunting.

The tank hammer is S10, that's why I suggest it.

On the power klaw, it is my understanding the klaw FIRSTLY doubles the strength of the wielder THEN adds any benefits. You may have to ask Gwar on that though.

Honestly, the land raider and monolith are the only real problems orks have with trying to pop armor. The only reliable way I've found is sending in a warboss, deff dread, or kanz. Basically the only access we have to S10.

Though, I wouldn't rule out battlewagons with deff rollas. Currently I'm starting to not be so big on them, as battlewagons, even with their front AV of 14, are surprisingly easy to pop, so probably shouldn't rely on them too much for support.

Orks are know for problems w/ cracking AV14. The ways to have been mention in this thread. Nob Klaws, and Deffrollas are the best of them. Tank hunters are S 10, but if they are the only thing on the board that can crack my LR, guess what I'm shooting first? As was mentioned before Close combat is how orcs kill armor.

Deffkoptaz are a fantastic choice for ork armour bustin'. Twinlinked rokkits are worthy enough in groups of 3 or more, and buzz saws are great for openin' that rear armour in close combat, and are can be the bane of things such as basilisks or whirlwinds. You can turbo boost in your scout move and then move, shoot and charge something usually, or at least put the fear into your opponent's armour deploying in the skwardron's range or, you can hold them in reserve for sneaky flanking manooovers


For AV14 shenanigans (looking at you landraiders) - Deffrollaz put the pain into them good an' proper

We don't have many options for AV14 all around unfortunately.
Regular powerklaws are unreliable unless you are packing 2-3 of them
Warboss powerklaws and dreadnaught ccw are good
The deffrolla is very good and your most reliable choice.
A weirdboy can do it you can roll 3s.
Finaly tankbustas can also crack it in melee but you will have to build your army to include them. Either in a BW or footslogging, but the second is not recommended as you will have a hard time presenting equal threats on the table.

Against a wall of IG armor you have alot more options. Lootas and rokkits can harn AV12 and 13 and all IG vehicles have a weak rear armor

Deffcopters have problems w/ small squad size and leadership. they are only LD7 If i recall and don't have access to a boss pole. Missiles and Lascannons cause problems for them. Admittedly flanking deffcopters are really good at forcing you enemy to stay in the middle so you deffrollas can get them.

A good ork list might include both snikrot and copters to keep opponents in the center and battlewagons to make that center a hard place to be. Add in the fact that ork units are cheap as hell, and you will still have plenty of points left over.

Humm You guys got me thinking

Weirdboy + 5 or 6 tankbustas with tankhammers?

I mean if you roll a 3 then you could just kill the tank and a 5 and might be teleporting next to it in a very orky fashion. It sounds too risky but also sounds pretty fun.

Thaylens got a good point on the Koptas. At leadership 7 one hit and they's a running off the table. Which is oh so annoying. But the rest of you got good points. I've had em tear up the backside of lesser tanks np.

Before you take a weirdboy, try a unit of Zzap Guns with plenty of ammo runts. Sure, they'll only be able to hurt the LR if you roll above an 8. And even then, only half of them will hit the opponent before you start using runts. You'll have roughly a 40% chance of being able to effect the tank with your shot, so you'll have an average of 3 good rounds of fire.

To be perfectly clear, this is not a good way to clear tanks either- it just is better than using a weird boy.

A weirdboy will zap once per game, assuming no enemy psychic defence, which there will be, and when he fires off his whole squad must fire at his target. If you've got him with tankbustas, he'll have to shoot the same target as his squad- the closest armor. I sure hope that once per game str 10 shot doesn't get wasted on a rhino.

Really, all the best techniques for stopping armor have already been mentioned. KFF Deffrolla wagons are your best bet if they're loaded with something nasty that strikes at Str 10 or 9 on the charge and have a boarding plank.

If you're running green tide, you'll need to let your dreads and kanz take care of it or ignore it.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned for the Leman Russes is Snikrot. If you've got a strong but slow foot element, having him assault a squad of tanks from one of their board edges can be an excellent tactic. Unlike Land Raiders you can hit their juicy Armor 10 or 11 backsides with Snikrot's Str 6 attacks, and the boyz' strength 4. Have one lone boy enter combat with a unit of guardsmen and he won't even be able to shoot you next turn.

I want to point out a glaring weakness with koptas. Yes they are good at popping transports but they are useless against anything thats 13 and up. ITs a str7 attack on its charge, big deal, he needs to make a LR a smoking wreck!

The best way we have to pop those pesky AV14 guys is a deffrolla. Dreds/kans are also really good at this, but they are slower then a BW/defrolla. The best is still deffrolla because your ramming another vehicle. Relying on dreds/kans/warboss is bad, simply because you have to take in account, how far did the LR move before you assaulted it? Your either auto hitting (so it was either immobilized or you caught a SM player sleeping) a 4+ or 6s. So you either have a 50% chance to hit the LR, or almost no chance of hitting it.

KingCracker wrote:I want to point out a glaring weakness with koptas. Yes they are good at popping transports but they are useless against anything thats 13 and up. ITs a str7 attack on its charge, big deal, he needs to make a LR a smoking wreck!

The best way we have to pop those pesky AV14 guys is a deffrolla. Dreds/kans are also really good at this, but they are slower then a BW/defrolla. The best is still deffrolla because your ramming another vehicle. Relying on dreds/kans/warboss is bad, simply because you have to take in account, how far did the LR move before you assaulted it? Your either auto hitting (so it was either immobilized or you caught a SM player sleeping) a 4+ or 6s. So you either have a 50% chance to hit the LR, or almost no chance of hitting it.

Was just going to mention the deffrolla You can couple the deffrolla wagon with a lovely unit inside that includes a PK warboss and some PK nobz. Now you've got a huge amount of landraider bustin' power in one compartment. You hit that landraider and it will go pop

Another suggestion from me is biker boyz. Take a nob leader with a klaw and zoom into his face. You've got wounds to chuck about with a 4+ cover save so you've got a good chance of hitting his lines and tearing things up

Ok as an ork player the way I take out armor is either with rokkits or Power klaws. let me break it down this way.

Armor 10: Rokkits, Deff guns, Power Klaws, Big shootas, Mass Shootas, dread/kans

Armor 11: Rokkits, Deff guns, Power Klaws, Big shootas, dreads/kans

Armor 12: Rokkits, Deff guns, Power Klaws, dreads/kans

Armor 13: Rokkits, Power Klaws, dreads/kans

Armor 14: Power klawed Warboss, dreads/kans and if your lucky Zzap guns(i'mnot lucky lol)

Also if you take battle wagons slap a rolla on that bad boy and smash everything in your path. Also Nob with power klaw and boarding plank just in case.

I usually charge Ghaz directly at it. If it hasn't moved more than 6", you have a good shot.

Gitzbitah wrote:
A weirdboy will zap once per game, assuming no enemy psychic defence, which there will be, and when he fires off his whole squad must fire at his target. If you've got him with tankbustas, he'll have to shoot the same target as his squad- the closest armor. I sure hope that once per game str 10 shot doesn't get wasted on a rhino.

This is a common misconception about tankbustas. They have to fire at a vehicle if there are any within line of sight. There's nothing that says they have to fire at the closest vehicle. Only bomb-squigs behave like that.

The deffrolla is good, and I'm surprised no one suggested a warboss on a bike. I don't like to rely on nobs st. 9 klaws for av 14, my dice just aint hot enough to do much. A warboss zipping around on a bike delivering a st.10 klaw to were ever you need it is just awesome, and is very versatile.

For non av 14 vehicles then its just lootas and or klaws from nob units or nobs from boyz units. I have not tried tank bustas yet, they look fun and they should be able to do some stuff but I just haven't put together some models for them.

My first try with a biker boss ended horribly. I can blame it on not playing in awhile when I tried it but, it did lead to one of my favorite hilarious WTF moments in a game. I zipped my biker boss up to a LR, thinking that I have a decent enough chance to blow it up and then have a reason to model some tank part on him. Totally forgot about the hits depend on how far it moved. Well I had to roll 6s to hit. Failed horribly. So now I was freaked, because he was in the middle of the SM army. So my opponent obviously wanted to kill that threat fast.

There was a libby and squad inside the LR, they jump out and fire at him, fail/miss/cover save. The libby does some magical whoha, misses. So the LR opens up, misses/cover save. Annoyed, his had 2 tactical squads in range, opens up. Misses/fails/cover save. A dev squad fires at him, same thing, misses/fails/cover save. The LASt thing he had to shoot at me, was a razorback with heavy bolter. I just KNEW ok thats easy, half the hits will be ignored anyways by the coversave. So the HB fires, 1 misses both hit, both wound, I fail both saves. Then the bolter on it shoots, hits wounds...and I fail the damn save. It was just hilarious. I gave him an Ork nob head for his razorback, it deserved it

put a warboss (on a bike) with snikrot drive up from the back and just make a b-line to the land raider and start krumping it like a tin can

Humm... well I just had a match today and really tried to kill his Landraider. Trukk + Tankbusta's didn't work. Nor did the Zzap guns (but they did kill some terms). Even smacked it with a few Meganobs. Nothing

Thinking about trying that BW Deffrolla and the Warboss bike next time. Really don't like the idea of giving up an HQ or making a BW all tank killy when it could be doing other fun killy stuff but... for science!

The biggest problem about the dudes i'm facing is they know I have the this problem. So they cap on it hard. Blockin a road or just putting the tank in the middle of the field so it chews up my boyz. Makes me pick between PKing the tank and havin 20 some boyz chillin in the open with thumbs up their butts or makin a dash at the firing line.

So... next game it's BW, Biker Boss and hell might as well try putting tankbustas in the BW just to make sure the damn thing dies. I mean I havn't fought anyone yet that can beat my boyz in a infantry slugg fest.

Put boarding planks on your BW if he's just going to try sitting there.

Na he makes it a point to move the thing around just enough to get the 4+ to hit.

Then that costs him shooting power, if you're complaining about hitting vehicles on fours... take a different army with BS4 then you can hit the raiders on 5s =_=
(Or take a grabbing Klaw and a BP)

TheH4XIncarnate wrote:Humm... well I just had a match today and really tried to kill his Landraider. Trukk + Tankbusta's didn't work. Nor did the Zzap guns (but they did kill some terms). Even smacked it with a few Meganobs. Nothing

Thinking about trying that BW Deffrolla and the Warboss bike next time. Really don't like the idea of giving up an HQ or making a BW all tank killy when it could be doing other fun killy stuff but... for science!

The biggest problem about the dudes i'm facing is they know I have the this problem. So they cap on it hard. Blockin a road or just putting the tank in the middle of the field so it chews up my boyz. Makes me pick between PKing the tank and havin 20 some boyz chillin in the open with thumbs up their butts or makin a dash at the firing line.

So... next game it's BW, Biker Boss and hell might as well try putting tankbustas in the BW just to make sure the damn thing dies. I mean I havn't fought anyone yet that can beat my boyz in a infantry slugg fest.

Just outa curiosity what does the rest of your army look like? It sounds like your playing a horde in which a trukk full of tank boyz is a horrid idea. Throw a simple list that you would normally use up here, maybe we can give you more specific help.