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Hi!

Well, I was thinking about what could happen if in a unit of wracks with an haemonculi and an Archont (all the unit with 2 FNP tokens, the tokens from the begining of the game, 1 from the rule of wracks, and another from the haemonculi) we decide to separate the archont? Does the archont take a token and let another to the rest of the unit? As rules sais, it should be that way, shouldn't it?

From memory you are required to divide pain tokens as equally as possible. This means the Archon would take one with him.

Nos is correct. You divide the pain tokens however you want to, as long as it's equally divided. So the Archon could take one for FNP, and the Wracks could keep one for FNP.

If two squads both GAIN a token at the same time however, you have to assign it randomly.

Magnalon wrote:Nos is correct. You divide the pain tokens however you want to, as long as it's equally divided. So the Archon could take one for FNP, and the Wracks could keep one for FNP.

If two squads both GAIN a token at the same time however, you have to assign it randomly.

Of course the only time that will happen is with Sweeping advance.

Kommissar Kel wrote:

Magnalon wrote:Nos is correct. You divide the pain tokens however you want to, as long as it's equally divided. So the Archon could take one for FNP, and the Wracks could keep one for FNP.

If two squads both GAIN a token at the same time however, you have to assign it randomly.

Of course the only time that will happen is with Sweeping advance.

Why not a multi-assault with 2-3 squads?

Because Only one squad will surely deal the deathblow?

liam0404 wrote:Because Only one squad will surely deal the deathblow?

2 different units can have same initiative and attack at same time wiping out a unit.

Ahhh good point. In a multi assault then, would it be random, or the unit which inflicts tge most casualties which gains tge token?

Random.

Also, what if you kill a unit via fearless saves?

You havent killed the unit, so I wouldnt give them a token...but this whole bit is hideously silly anyway....

The morale check is still part of the Assault Phase, isn't it? If a Dark Eldar squad causes the destruction of a unit, it gets a token...? Fearless wounds wouldn't have been caused unless the enemy squad was in an assault with a dark eldar unit, right?

I was saying it rhetorically. You should award the token randomly.

It isn't like the wrecked vehicle/units surrounded and die situation where the "vehicle" kills the unit, the Dark Eldar unit, in fact, killed the unit by forcing saves in the same phase.

Dathkael wrote:Hi!

Well, I was thinking about what could happen if in a unit of wracks with an haemonculi and an Archont (all the unit with 2 FNP tokens, the tokens from the begining of the game, 1 from the rule of wracks, and another from the haemonculi) we decide to separate the archont? Does the archont take a token and let another to the rest of the unit? As rules sais, it should be that way, shouldn't it?

You have 3 units, ( 2 IC's and 1 squad) and 2 pain tokens. As evenly as possible means 2 of the 3 units can get a pain token, meaning you can give the Archon a pain token or leave one with the Haemy and one with the wracks, the same as they were before they were attached.

If you were to kill an enemy unit in cc with the 3 units combined, the unit has 3 pain tokens. When detached, they would all 3 take 1 pain token.

Except while the haemi is joined you DONT have 3 units; you have 2 - the archon, and troops+haemi.

If you read the rules for ICs joiining units, especially the last sentences in the assault rules for ICs, this should be crystal clear.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Except while the haemi is joined you DONT have 3 units; you have 2 - the archon, and troops+haemi.

If you read the rules for ICs joiining units, especially the last sentences in the assault rules for ICs, this should be crystal clear.

OK, I'm a little slow, so bear with me. IC Haemy with Pain Token joins Wracks with Pain Token, they now count as 1 unit with 2 Pain Tokens. If Archon with No Pain Tokens Joins them, then leaves by himself, he "must" take 1 of the Pain Tokens b/c there are 2 units and the Pain tokens must be separated as equally as possible between units? That's right?

If so, If you wanted the Archon to split, but not take a Pain Token, you have to leave the Archon attached to the Wracks, detach the Haemy so that he gets a Pain Token. Then detach the Archon while leaving the Pain Token with the Wracks and you should be allowed to move the Wracks within 2" of the Haemy to re-attach him, thus giving you 2 Pain Tokens with the Wracks and Haemy and none on the Archon.

Yes, that is right. Except you cannot leave and join the unit - you only find out you have left at the end of the movement phase, by which time you cannot move any further.

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, that is right. Except you cannot leave and join the unit - you only find out you have left at the end of the movement phase, by which time you cannot move any further.

Interesting. When would you reassign pain tokens then? At the end of the movement phase?
What would happen if the hammi and the archon walked off, and both failed dangerous terrain tests? Would they still have feel no pain, because the tokens aren't reassigned until the end of the phase, when you discover you've left the unit?

-Matt

Nope they would both take a wound because feel no pain doesn't help vs. dangerous terrain (dangerous terrain doesn't allow an armor save).

But if they were crossing a minefield in an Apoc game, that would probably be the correct ruling.

HawaiiMatt wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:Yes, that is right. Except you cannot leave and join the unit - you only find out you have left at the end of the movement phase, by which time you cannot move any further.

Interesting. When would you reassign pain tokens then? At the end of the movement phase?
What would happen if the hammi and the archon walked off, and both failed dangerous terrain tests? Would they still have feel no pain, because the tokens aren't reassigned until the end of the phase, when you discover you've left the unit?

-Matt

Actually, to be more precise you'd know the IC has left the unit when that unit finishes it's move and the IC is now more than 2" away from the unit. That's when you'd divide up the tokens. So if the IC is moving out of coherency (leaving the unit) and through dangerous terrain at the same time...only after he ends his move out of coherency would you divvy up the pain tokens.

Of course, the rules for the timing of dangerous terrain tests are rather vague in the rulebook. It can be interpreted that you take the test when moving the model through the dangerous terrain or after it has completed the move, so I guess the question of whether the pain tokens are divvied up before or after dangerous terrain tests are taken (and their results are apllied) is a bit up in the air.

I think I'd personally lean towards the interpretation that if the IC dies from a DT test while leaving a unit he would NOT take a pain token with him. Only if he successfully completes his move (alive) would you then divvy up the tokens.

If he dies from a dangerous terrain test while attempting to leave a unit, he does take a single pain token with him, and upon his death, the unit he left gets a new one, because they watched him go face first into a tree! LOL.