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So, I was watching my friend play Grey Knights last night. From a Pure Grey Knight perspective, most would consider Land Raider spam the most viable list. However, due to the amount of melta, DS melta, and lance weaponry that is in the game, even that isn't too good. LR spam is so rock, paper, scissors. Can you kill LR? If so, win. If not, lose (maybe). So I scratched up a 1000 point list that I intend to try out.


HQ: Brother Captain- Psycannon, Master crafted NFW, targeter = 107

Retinue- 4 Terminators, 1 w psycannon= 209

Troops: Grey Knights- 5 GK, 1 Justicar w/ targeter -1 w psycannon= 201

Troops: Grey Knights- 5 GK, 1 Justicar w/ targeter-1 w psycannon= 201

Heavy Support: Dreadnaught- twin linked lascannon, missile launcher=140

Heavy Support: Dreadnaught- twin linked lascannon, missile launcher=140

Total: 998

Obviously psycannon spam is nothing new. But is it viable? I'm not sure. Obviously the list will attempt to sit back and shoot then counter charge. Only 5 kill points at 1000 is nice. I had a lot of trouble filling the last 70 points of the list. The master crafted NFW and the additional 2 GK are the best I came up with.

Any experienced GK players? Anyone at all? Thoughts and comments are welcome and appreciated.

I seriously love GK, they are my favorite models, have some really cool rules and great fluff...

However, I can't help but see the glaring flaws they have in a 5th edition environment. Case in point, any objective games are going to be so difficult to win, and you can't really do anything to help that. You have 2 scoring units, which while tough are small, and no fast units to contest. Your ability to win an objectives game is purely based on your ability to wipe scoring units from your opponents table or slow march your team up to contest. It just seems bleak to me.
I think KP games will go alright, you have decent anti-tank and nice firepower (4 Psycannons is nice). But that's only 1/3 of games you will really be in, and you are still going to have a tough time with top tier armies.

I seriously love GK, they are my favorite models, have some really cool rules and great fluff...

However, I can't help but see the glaring flaws they have in a 5th edition environment. Case in point, any objective games are going to be so difficult to win, and you can't really do anything to help that. You have 2 scoring units, which while tough are small, and no fast units to contest. Your ability to win an objectives game is purely based on your ability to wipe scoring units from your opponents table or slow march your team up to contest. It just seems bleak to me.
I think KP games will go alright, you have decent anti-tank and nice firepower (4 Psycannons is nice). But that's only 1/3 of games you will really be in, and you are still going to have a tough time with top tier armies.

Grey Knights do look amazing. The fluff is great. The rules...very lacking.

That being said, I completely agree with you. There is really no speed here (or in the codex in genera). Multiple objective games would be tough. I suppose the Termies could deep strike. The problem is that it would take 2 psycannons off the board until at least turn 2, as well as risk 300 points to a bad scatter. I fully agree that they are in an uphill climb every game. I suppose my goal here was to try to create an alternate to taking a Land Raider, which really isn't all that. They can be durable, but they are also killed easily by many armies.

I just don't know what else could be done at 1000 points to make it a better list. The termies could go, but really they are the best unit in the codex. Why take them out?

Old Grey Knights don't belong in the competitive spectrum. They cannont and will not win against a decent list of equal points. That being said, you may have a chance at winning against a player who's equally interested in having a good time and playing with a list that was designed more for fun than to bash your opponents head against a wall repeatedly. Frankly, there's nothing you can do to make a pure Grey Knights list comp. Their points just don't factor. And, the fact they lack any form of transportation really blows. You can get those deep strike GK's if you're feeling lucky. . .

For this list in particular I would drop the Terminators, take the cheapest HQ possible, bone up on Dreads (because, outside of LR's, they're your only form of decent AT firepower), buy more troops, and hide in terrain as often as possible.

Sadlly there is no good GK build at this time, maybe Q1 next will cange that. In the mean time only play them for fun or as allies. Even as allies I would only feild 1-2 small units.

Magister187 wrote:I seriously love GK, they are my favorite models, have some really cool rules and great fluff...

However, I can't help but see the glaring flaws they have in a 5th edition environment.

Luckily, the GKs will have an uber-awesome codex feb-time!!!

...you have 15 models on the board?

...you have 15 models on the board?

Actually, it would be 17 and two Dreadnaughts thank you

Sadly, Grey Knights don't have a lot of luxury when it comes to this. Sure, I could squeeze 6 squads of 5 basic GK's and a Brother Captian with a Psycannon in for a total of 31 models, but the list would only have storm bolters. If I add a psycannon to all of these squads, it would be down to 26 strong with 6 psycannons. That's not horrible, but the list doesn't have much punch. Any armor 12 or over is basically safe. The Drednaughts are the only source of anti armor unless the GK go Landraider, which is prohibitive and vulnerable if it's going solo at 1000.

Basically, they aren't going to be competitive. I was merely kicking around the idea of making them viable at 1000.

You should kick the codex. . .into the gutter and call it a day

1000pts running pure Grey Knights is a bad idea. To be competitive you need to get up to 1850+ games. There you can do some great dmg with psycannon spam and lascannons.

Some changes to your 1000pt list keeping it pure would be dropping the terminators. Sorry but they just don't work in 1k even though they are by FAR the best unit in the codex. You need larger troop squads period to stay on the table

First, the HQ cannot take a targeter.

Brother Captain
-Psycannon, Hammerhand, Master-crafted weapon

9 PAGKs
2 psycannons
targeter

9 PAGKs
2 psycannons

Dreadnought
TL lascannon, heavy flamer
smoke

Dreadnought
TL lascannon, heavy flamer

1000pts

First, the HQ cannot take a targeter.

Brother Captain
-Psycannon, Hammerhand, Master-crafted weapon

9 PAGKs
2 psycannons
targeter

9 PAGKs
2 psycannons

Dreadnought
TL lascannon, heavy flamer
smoke

Dreadnought
TL lascannon, heavy flamer

1000pts

Is that 9 PAGKs with 2 psycannons or 11 PAGKs, 2 with psycannons? I see what you are saying here, but it ultimately results in 2-5 more models, 1 more psycannon, and 2 less missile launchers. I think the Dreadnaughts in your list have a confused role. They are long ranged anti tank with a short ranged flamer and a close combat capability. I like versatility but specialization in the form of ranged anti armor in an army with none has to come at a higher priority.

Don't bother buying any models. Wait 'til february.

Their is no confused role for anything...You either run lascannon/missile or lascannon/hf. I find that running the hf with the lascannon is much more of a threat. The missile launcher doesn't really do much that the lascannon doesn't. Having 2 10str attacks and 2 heavy flamers brings another element to the list. They are your barriers between your PAGKs and death. Transports that get close are now seeing a PF instead of 6str attacks and hordes are now looking at alot of death w/ flamers.

What are you going to do if your opponent drop pods an ironclad into your lines for example??? hope your 8str missile does something against 13 armor??? No, you now have a few 10str attacks to bring it down.

I wanted to bump this thread and give a follow up to a game I played with this list:

HQ: Brother Captain- Psycannon, Master crafted NFW, targeter = 107

Retinue- 4 Terminators, 1 w psycannon= 209

Troops: Grey Knights- 5 GK, 1 Justicar w/ targeter -1 w psycannon= 201

Troops: Grey Knights- 5 GK, 1 Justicar w/ targeter-1 w psycannon= 201

Heavy Support: Dreadnaught- twin linked lascannon, missile launcher=140

Heavy Support: Dreadnaught- twin linked lascannon, missile launcher=140

Total: 998

Last night I played against Dark Eldar. My opponent asked for an additional 50 points so I added another terminator.

His list was

HQ: Baron
Hamonculus with Liquifyer (he was used to give FNP to the Hellions and hid back)

Elites: 4 Trueborn with blasters
Raider with Nightshield and Flickerfield

Troop: 10 Dark Eldar, 1 squad leader, 1 blaster
Raider with flickerfield
x2

Fast Attack: 6 Hellions, 1 with Agonizer

Heavy Support: Ravager with nightshield and flickerfield
x2

He had 11 kill points. I had...5. I rocked him so hard he called it turn 3. Some of this was a result of some poor shooting on his part, but overall the list was solid in a kill point game.