Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I'll try to keep this brief. I often think that chaos marines should have drop pods. The only reason I can think of why they don't is that generally the chaos codex is superior to the marine one (for the same or similar points) so they gave the marines many more types of unit. This partially because they really do have more options, for instance chaos marines don't have veterans. But the chaos marines most certainly field drop pods, anyway I want to know what the wider world thinks on the matter. Please vote in the poll and post a message to explain your choice if you think it necessary.

They don't have drop pods because they have dreadclaws which are superior.

But require apocalypse to play. I mean if chaos could deep strike like ANY other marine army (cept possibly black templar) they would be oh so much more effective.

They have dreadclaws. But the should have them for use in regular 40k. Probably will in thier next codex.

I believe they should ONLY have Deathclaw drop-pods, even then they are rare. I'd rather they simply didn't get Drop-Pods as although it suits their play-style more, I'd rather they weren't even more like 'spikey marines', but actually different.
Deathclaws could achieve this, even more accurate to deploy, but don't stay around after. They would however be limited in number and wouldn't have the distraction-use of a normal pod.

As I said, I'd be happy with them getting drop-pods, but only if they were Deathclaws and hence actually DIFFERENT from Codex: Space Marines.

shrike wrote:Probably will in thier next codex.

Oh yeah? And you know this how?

Or is this just your hopes, but which you claim will likely be in their Codex?

"Dreadclaws" aren't drop pods.

They're "assault craft", designed to cut through starship hulls and lock on like a tick.

CSM, for the most part, should be restricted to using teleport/Warpgate assaults for deep striking.

Kanluwen wrote:"Dreadclaws" aren't drop pods.

They're "assault craft", designed to cut through starship hulls and lock on like a tick.

CSM, for the most part, should be restricted to using teleport/Warpgate assaults for deep striking.

They are still used as drop-pods none-the-less. However IIRC aren't they from the heresy only? therefore limited in number?

I do however agree with your final statement, I'd rather Chaos were kept original rather than sharing even more with Space Marines...

They're not so much used as "drop pods" as they're used in a role similar to an Arvus Lighter; a way to land troops on the surface and(unlike Drop Pods, which need to be picked up by Thunderhawk Transporters specially set up for recovery...the Dreadclaw can fire its engines after hitting the ground, and can actually regain orbit)to bring said troops back up from the surface too.

And it's not so much "they're from the Heresy only", it's just that the Imperium opted to stop making them. The Dark Mechanicus likely has the plans to build more.

But they are used as drop pods?

Everything I've ever read about them was them being the next generation of DropPods but that the machine spirit was cursed.

Again, right to a large extent. However, they are still used for a similar role in dropping troops into the midst of a battle and then lifting off again. So, they are more than a tool used in space warfare...

Well, in which case you can argue that they are from just the heresy, as they aren't produced after that era. Nonetheless, it does mean that in game (and fluff) terms they would be of limited access to CSM's.

Just Dave wrote:Again, right to a large extent. However, they are still used for a similar role in dropping troops into the midst of a battle and then lifting off again. So, they are more than a tool used in space warfare...

Well, in which case you can argue that they are from just the heresy, as they aren't produced after that era. Nonetheless, it does mean that in game (and fluff) terms they would be of limited access to CSM's.

If you're talking about Space Warfare, then you're saying that they're supposed to double as Assault Pods?

That makes no sense, because it isn't equipped with a weapon to smash its way into a ship.

They are - as Kanluwen stated - primarly used as assault pods, however they also work as Drop Pods.

grayspark wrote:But they are used as drop pods?

Everything I've ever read about them was them being the next generation of Drop Pods but that the machine spirit was cursed.

No. Dreadclaws preceded Drop Pods, and were in the midst of being replaced during the Horus Heresy. It's why most Legions were using gunships rather than Drop Pods.

grayspark wrote:If you're talking about Space Warfare, then you're saying that they're supposed to double as Assault Pods?

That makes no sense, because it isn't equipped with a weapon to smash its way into a ship.

So incredibly wrong it's unbelievable.

See that "ring" around the outside of the irised shutter/hatch?
That's the weapon the Dreadclaw has. It's a cluster of tight bore meltas which fire up for a few seconds upon latching onto the ship.

You know why Guard/Navy units don't use meltaguns when they're defending ships they don't want to damage, right?

Just Dave wrote:They are - as Kanluwen stated - primarly used as assault pods, however they also work as Drop Pods.

Huh, I didn't know that, that's pretty awesome.

How do they work, do they just smash through?

i was more thinking along the lines that the CSM have much more limited access to more modern technology, still using 10,000 year-old tech since they don't exactly have access the newer Space Marine wargear (for example, the chainaxe and the small chain-bayonet attachment to a boltgun, both of which fell out of "style" with the SM).

The idea behind a Dreadclaw being only CSM is apparently (according to the lexicanum, canon-only info):

"The Dreadclaw's advanced machine spirit began to develop dangerous tendencies, on occasion causing the death of its passengers, though in the dark times of the heresy their use continued due to the desperateness of their commander; or their wanton lack of care for their troops. Despite the Adeptus Mechanicus revising the vehicle's machine spirit, a streak of accidents led to the majority of the Dreadclaws being jettisoned into space, and now only the Traitor Legions are known to use these dangerous, albeit advanced, vessels."

It would make sense that only the CSM use them, the SM may have developed less-advanced but less dangerous Drop Pods for use following the Heresy, after the traitor legions lost access to the wargear used by the Imperium.

See post right above you

Those "arms" on the outside smash their way in, holding the Dreadclaw in place.

After that, the meltas fire up and cut a nice circular hole, or alternatively weakening the hull plating so standard breaching charges can blast through it. Then the iris opens up, and voila you've got a band of really really ticked off Traitor Astartes busting into your ship. As a bonus, when the Dreadclaw disconnects...it vents the atmosphere of the section it latched onto(which doesn't discomfort the Traitor Astartes, what with being in environmentally sealed Powered Armor).

I'd like to see some form of drop pod/deepstrike based transport in the next book. My main reasoning for this, regardless of all fluff based arguments, is for gameplay purposes and to give the player more transport options. Having something other than a 10 man rhino/landraider would be a good thing in my book and make the army more unpredictable to play against.

I'd probably reckon that the drop pod/deepstrike transport wouldn't be available to all chaos units and only specific units.

I see no gross unbalance created by Chaos Drop pods...Test-play and let us know!

Thank you for the background information and stuff. I just thought, make dreadclaw rules and everything to be pretty much a drop pod but allow a unit to go inside and be removed from play so that your denying the enemy a kill point in the case of an almost obliterated elites or heavy support unit.

Honestly the CSM are kinda a mess right now. They are trying to have 9 different legions+renegade chapters all in the same book, and that just does not work. My offered solution is 3 fold.

1) The vanilla SM book should have Huron Blackhart as a special character, and possibly contain a section for loyal/traitor wargear for certain units. Al of the 21st founding chapters that whent renegade would mostly be codex chapters and equipment. They would have drop pods, razorbacks, and new pattern Land raiders. Give a few options like demon weapons for the captian and different spells, and this would be a better representation of chapters turned to chaos. Of course going to chaos would exclude taking some loyalist only options.

2) Alpha Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, and Night Lords get their own book called Chaos Renegades. I think that these legions would use dreadclaws more (especially Night Lords/Alpha Legion) and it would not be unbalanced to have them as they mostly use "vanilla" CSM as their troops.

3) World Eaters, Death Guard, Emperor's Children, 1000 suns, and Black Legion get a book called Chaos Legions. They would not get dreadclaws, as they have the stronger troop choices. Dropping Bezerkers/Plauge marines right next to people would be hard to balance.

On topic: A dreadclaw or Chaos pre heresy style drop pod would probably come at a higher point cost and function slightly differently to a loyalist drop pod (mosy likely in the form of different upgrades and weaponry). Any ideas anyone as this is a proposed rules forum?

Off topic: Gotta agree a little bit with svendrex. Your idea is a good one but highly unlikely that GW will follow it. As an owner of 3 Chaos codices (3.0, 3.5 and 4.0), the flaw with the current model is that they used the streamlined model followed the 3.0 dex yet didn't maintain the customisability present in both the 3.0 and 3.5 books.

I think this can be partly attributed to the fact that none of the codex writers of the current book were Chaos players. Gav Thorpe was an Eldar player and Alessio Cavatore was a WHFB Skaven player who wrote the Skaven codex. It would be good if the next book was written by a GW staff member who is actually a Chaos player/knows something about Chaos.

No. CSM have boarding craft that can kinda sorta work as drop pods. They should not get drop pods, they should be fixed in ways that make them less similar to SM instead of more.

ph34r wrote:No. CSM have boarding craft that can kinda sorta work as drop pods. They should not get drop pods, they should be fixed in ways that make them less similar to SM instead of more.

Why should they be so vastly different? Chaos marines and loyal marines on the physical level all started out the same. Just because some of them changed their ideals doesnt mean the technology they brought with them changes. They should be different but saying they cant have drop pods because they are chaos is a bit confusing. They are still space marines and many chaos legions still use drop pods. Now fluff =/= rules but as far as background goes chaos marines have every right to have drop pods and in many books they still use drop pods. The biggest book that comes to mind is soul hunter as they dont have much of anything else that works besides drop pods.

Now the distinction between dreadclaws and regular pods is a different argument. I am more in favor of chaos getting dreadclaw drop pods because they are different and they fit the chaos ideaology. I believe it is in one of the apoc books where they state that the dreadclaw design was rejected as they had a number of issues with it and corrupted machine spirits were theorized to be the cause of their problems.

Actually it does mean the technology they "brought with them" changes. Tech exposed to the Warp changes, or it just ceases to function period.

Those "many books" you're referring to actually very rarely have Drop Podding Chaos forces.
Night Lords and Alpha Legion are notable exceptions as they're very heavy into scavenging Imperial tech to operate behind enemy lines. The Black Legion, Iron Warriors, Word Bearers tend to operate entire worlds dedicated to producing equipment, or in the case of Black Legion/Word Bearers rely on lots of teleportation tech for their sieges.

I'm saying that fluffwise CSM do not have drop pods, they have dreadclaws which are rarely used. They should not be refluffed to match SM.

i support the idea of chaos drop pods. hell forgeworld makes the dreadclaw and i'm sure GW could easily make that plastic now

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:i support the idea of chaos drop pods. hell forgeworld makes the dreadclaw and i'm sure GW could easily make that plastic now

Yeah? Even though fluffwise, CSM almost never use them?

3.5 codex chaos disagress

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:3.5 codex chaos disagrees

Do you not understand what "almost never" means?

Traitor Astartes, by and large, don't launch Drop Pod Assaults like their Loyalist cousins. Drop Pod Assaults are a "signature" of the Loyalist Astartes.

Traitor Astartes, however, tend towards using Warp rifts, teleport assaults, etc.

That's why it's dumb to include Chaos Marine "Drop Pods"--or even Dreadclaws. Warp Gates that they can use to move units around the board/deep strike with would be far more fluffy and unique.

Kanluwen wrote:

TyraelVladinhurst wrote:3.5 codex chaos disagrees

Do you not understand what "almost never" means?

Traitor Astartes, by and large, don't launch Drop Pod Assaults like their Loyalist cousins. Drop Pod Assaults are a "signature" of the Loyalist Astartes.

Traitor Astartes, however, tend towards using Warp rifts, teleport assaults, etc.

That's why it's dumb to include Chaos Marine "Drop Pods"--or even Dreadclaws. Warp Gates that they can use to move units around the board/deep strike with would be far more fluffy and unique.

not really, they'd be just like eldar after that