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My friend (Tau player) and I (IG player) were playing a game yesterday and this question came up. One of my Vendettas came in from reserve, and I used it to outflank. My interpretation of how this works: when it comes to Vendetta movement, it's "footprint" on the board is considered to be the base, not the model itself. So I measured 6 inches from the front of the base to the board, and moved my Vendetta in that distance, so it would be considered moving at combat speed, and I could fire all weapons. My friend disagreed. He said that the movement had to be measured by the model. He justified his argument by saying that since the model is longer than 6 inches, the way I had placed it had the tail hanging partially over the edge of the board, which would be against the rules. I think he's full of it, and was just trying to avoid getting shot up, but I want to hear what people here think.

Though this didn't come up in the game, I thought I should clarify some of the other situations where you would target the model vs. the base. My assumption is as follows: When determining if the model can fit on a spot on the table, you just use the base. When shooting at it or shooting from it, for line of sight purposes or range, you use the model itself. When assaulting, you use the base. If the Vendetta gets shot down or destroyed, you remove the base and place the model on the table, and the whole thing becomes difficult terrain. Are my interpretations correct?

Except it isnt against the rules, as the rules only require you to move "ONTO" the table.

Partially onto the table satisfies this. If you have a search its around.

nitrokitty wrote:He justified his argument by saying that since the model is longer than 6 inches, the way I had placed it had the tail hanging partially over the edge of the board, which would be against the rules.

This has come up several times and, to be honest, the rules are vague.

However, the major problem with his interpretation is that there are a number of models (especially superheavy tanks) that cannot move wholly onto the table in a single move and so would never be able to come on from reserve.

In the case of the Valkyrie, you should be measuring to-from the model for moving and shooting, not to-from the base.

IG_FAQ wrote:Q. How do you treat the Valkyrie base for
gaming? Due to its height it seems that it is
impossible for a Valkyrie to contest an objective,
or for troops to disembark/embark normally.
A. Follow the rules in Measuring Distances in the
Skimmers section in the Warhammer 40,000
rulebook with the following exception: For the
purposes of contesting objectives and
embarking/disembarking from a Valkyrie or
Vendetta, measure to and from the model’s base.
For example, models wishing to embark within a
Valkyrie can do so if at the end of their
movement, all models within the unit are within
2" of the Valkyrie’s base.

I use the base to measure just for simplicity, I can see what you mean though. However aparently most IG players play it the same as I. every GT or major or even local tourneys, never seen it measured from the model tip,

His explanation is that vehicles that size that come in from reserve always have to be considered moving at cruising speed. I think he's just trying to keep me from firing all my weapons at him.

That is definitely what it sounds like to me. You can set him straight the next time you play a game.

You only move the vehicle as far as you want (as long as some part of it is on the board). A good reason to use the model and not the base is in the shooting phase. When shooting from a vehicle you measure from the tip of the weapon is and not the vehicle base. The difference may be slight but I've seen plenty of instances where it does make a potential hit into an automatic miss (out of range).

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:I use the base to measure just for simplicity, I can see what you mean though. However aparently most IG players play it the same as I. every GT or major or even local tourneys, never seen it measured from the model tip,

Well, that would absolutely be incorrect.

Were you to face me in a tournament I certainly would not allow. Measuring to the base positions your weapons further forward, giving you extra range. It also positions the base further forwards, getting your passengers closer to the enemy.

E.G. - you do your scout move to 12" measuring incorrectly to the base. T1 passengers disembark - now at 10", move - now at 4", and assault. All of them can get into assault with their meltabombs easily and the valk is free to move away to a safer position.
Measuring correctly, the base is approx 14" away - only the couple of models right at the front can get into combat. You either have to accept that reduced effectiveness or move the valk close, leaving it range of everything for a turn.

It's a significant advantage and the rules are 100% clear on this.

So, when someone shoots a Meltagun at it...? They measure from the model to the actual Vendetta itself, not the base? Just curious.

To the model, as per the skimmer rules.

As per P71 - "distances are measured to and from the skimmer's hull with the exception of the vehicle's weapons" & "a skimmer's base is effectively ignored, except when assaulting a skimmer, in which case models may move into contact with the vehicle's hull, base or both."

The FAQ adds two further uses for the base - measuring for contesting objectives and measuring for embarking/disembarking passengers.

Nifty. Thanks.