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Okay so I'm about to start collecting either ogres or beastmen for my first army (yes I have been advised against this) and I have to say after having watched some battles on youtube and at some gaming stores, the amount of men some armies can field (skaven, orcs and goblins, ect.) I'm pretty intimidated I'll be honest and say it's pretty scary to see that stuff especially knowing 6s always wound. Could anybody offer me any advice on this stuff?

I mean like how should I feel about this stuff and things I can do to help me fight also previously stated when I had said I was advised against the armies I was going to choose well I wasnt given much reason as to why

Ogres are much more competitive, you have the actual ogre units which act as you hammer, then you have knoblars which are you anvil units. you should use them to negate the enemies ranks. It isn't a terribly bad army either. Your magic will be different from others but once mastered you will get the best out of your troops, bear in mind the monsterous hoard rules are very benificial for you, it is especially scary for me to see a hoard of bulls or iron guts.

Beastmen have cool models but are very, very, very weak. I have never lost to a beatman player or lost more that a single unit in a game to one.

UNREALPwnage wrote:Ogres are much more competitive, you have the actual ogre units which act as you hammer, then you have knoblars which are you anvil units. you should use them to negate the enemies ranks. It isn't a terribly bad army either. Your magic will be different from others but once mastered you will get the best out of your troops, bear in mind the monsterous hoard rules are very benificial for you, it is especially scary for me to see a hoard of bulls or iron guts.

Beastmen have cool models but are very, very, very weak. I have never lost to a beatman player or lost more that a single unit in a game to one.

Well that is always good to hear as far as practice matches go against my friends bretts I have a 1-0-1 record so far (scraplauncher saved me big time and gorgers too)
I havent hoarded up any bulls usually I run squads of 6-8 My gnoblars never seem to reach the fight for me as of yet which is sad because I could have definately needed the extra manpower but bulls get the job done. As for gut magic it definately helps but is pretty easy to shut down but I dont mind. Also are rhinoxriders legal? Because I'm thinking a squad of them (yes expensive) would really, really provide the very much needed harder hitting power so I can try to fight through all of the freaking men-at-arms

Yeah I noticed that beastmen arent looking too good this edition which is a shame I really liked the look of the bestigors that and they are overpriced as far as $ goes, Ogres are alot of fun and well affordable (as far as GW prices will ever go) But I still just dont know how to deal with swarms and especially empire gunlines. A friend of mine who plays empire has more gunmen than I ever want to see again in my life that and he uses like 17th-18th century tactics which is not funny to go against

Beastmen can be competitive but are very reliant on magic to make them work. Note that Lore of Beasts seems designed for them, particularly with that handy +1 to casting attempts when the spell will affect a beastman unit.
A competitive Beastmen army will therefore have a good number of Bray-shamans lurking behind the ranks.

Flashman wrote:Beastmen can be competitive but are very reliant on magic to make them work. Note that Lore of Beasts seems designed for them, particularly with that handy +1 to casting attempts when the spell will affect a beastman unit.
A competitive Beastmen army will therefore have a good number of Bray-shamans lurking behind the ranks.

Well considering they have little to no armor (much like ogres) I'm good in that department, and I have no problem with being magic heavy at all my biggest issue is I need an army between those two where myself as a new player to WHFB would be able to standup against my friends Imperial Gunline because as it stands those pistolier/outriders are annoying and their cannons just wreck me. Also abit of an added question can bestigors be competitive?

I'd go Ogres. On top of being more competitive, they're ogres! I really like most of their models, they even have a Ninja!

Ogres are awsome.

IMO: Best fluff of all fantesy armies.



the nice thing about Ogres is the Magic. people say it's weak, and on the surface it is, but it can annoy the heck out of your opponent.

Ogres can be pretty sure of their spells casting. if your opponent fails to dispell(which with Lvl4 and 2 wizards can be tough) then you will have you buffs(which are stackable, yes T10 ogres is possable) for your turn.

in your opponents magic phase he has a choice. Dispell all your nasty buffs, or cast his own magic. Ogre spells are Level 7 when attempting to dispell. with wizards adding their level to their dispell attempts your buffs won't last long, even if he only uses 1 dice to dispell. but there is a rule about magic that helps here. Broken Concentration. if a Wizard rolls a natural 1 or 2(dice combination) when dispelling he ends his magic phase. that wizard can no longer cast or dispell spells. this means that, unless they devote 2 or more dice to dispelling, they run a 1/3 chance risk of ending that wizards casting phase.

the same risk applies to ogres casting, but we have an item to get aroundthat. Grut's Sickle. on a Butcher he can use single power dice to cast spells. if he rolls a 1 or 2 you can use the Sickle, if he has some ogre fodder with him, to get another dice and prevent a lost concentration. it can only be used once per turn so after that you must cast with 2 dice per spell.


Casting Order: if you have a Butcher(s) and a Slaughter master you should cast spells in this order. Butchers first, then Slaughter masters. a Butcher with Grut's sickle goes before other butchers. have your Butchers/SM buff the same unit with the same spell. Toothcracker is the important spell. see if you can draw out dispell dice with Bonecruncher or Braingobbler first using 1 dice with the Sickle butcher. have each Butcher cast Toothcracker on a unit that has just charged/already in combat. 2 Toothcrackers will make 90% of enemy troops need 6s to wound. 3 will make it even harder to dispell completely next turn.

Not all spell benifits are cumulative. Trollguts doesn't stack. there is a benift to having 2 of this spell however. your opponent must dispell it twice to get rid of the effects.

Don't expect your Buffs to last into your opponents turn unless he rolls really bad for Winds. if your opponent is Dwarves, Forget your magic and just get to stomping.

@ShadowZetki

Beastmen are a great army. Several options that other armies don't have, and can be very competitive. I have recently dusted off my Beastmen after benching my Demons, and have had much more fun playing them. While I wouldn't say they are "very" reliant on magic, magic is key if you want to win with them. As it has been said, Lore of Beast is important! Wildform is the key spell that makes the Beast army really work!

Please check out my blog as I've been documenting the use of my beastmen army. I'll also keep an eye out for this thread if you have any follow up questions.

http://www.plainsofwar.wordpress.com

PEACE!

I really enjoy Beastmen as well especially with their new book and 8th edition. Don't disregard them because they are not "competitive" you just have to train in how to win with them.

How you win with them is fun as well, using magic, having tons of monsters to run around with, and sending your units sneaking behind enemy lines. Yeah tons of fun.