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I’m playing a dark Eldar list on Saturday and the person I’m playing is, unfortunately, a far superior player than I.

I'm using the new forge world Tyrants legion list (I have permission to use both it and any special characters from it) and this is what I'm thinking of running (1500):

HQ
Commander Culln (he lets me replace all veteran sergeants with apothecaries, giving my marine squads FnP )

Centurion with chainsword and storm bolter(he is basically a 2 wound marine captain)

Elites
Retaliator squad( assault marines with combat shields instead of jump packs)

Troops
20 man marine squad

40 man Conscript equivalent squad

Heavy Support
Leman Russ

Leman Russ

A siege tank with a demolisher cannon(the name escapes me)

just wondering what people think and if it would be effective against dark Eldar? And if you guys have any good tactics against the new DE

Do you know what his list is focused on.

Wyches?
Warriors?
Wracks?
Raiders?

What are his heavies?
Is he playing bikes?

Depending on his list, the LRs could be toast quick.
Or he will eat through the conscripts like they don't exist.
A little detail and we can help you out.

hm. this could be a tough match up for you.

If I was you, I'd plan for 12-15 dark lances across the table from you. You need to defend your tanks from that (cover, LoS tricks, using your vehicles to cover your other vehicles). Autocannons are your friend, and remember to fire as many guns as possible as it's quantity and not quality that hurts DE most.

FNP is nice, but watch out for incubi and archons, as they'll chop through that squad fairly quickly.

I'd almost say standard marine tanks are superior vs DE to LRs.

True lance tech is going to reduce your russ front to AV 12 so the more lances you see the more likely you are to die.

DE do not field any real heavy so rather than LRBT (any template variety) you would probably be better served by
HB sponsons, autocannons and heavy stubbers. Dakka predators will serve you better than a LR Demolisher or SM Vindicator and give you more spare points.

Use vendettas too along with chimeras.

shoot the transports. DE that have to walk to the target arent going to last.

Cheers guys for all the help !

He has 2 squads of kalabite(spelling?) warriors, a squad of witches, Incubi(spelling? again), the heavy tank, the bikes and one of the flyers. I don't know what toys these models have or else he might bring to play with.

Im thinking of maybe replacing Culln with Huron, as he will let me take a squad of terminators. Dunno how useful they will be though? Got 4 heavy bolters in my marine squad wich should be useful, aswell as HB sponsons on my Russ's. Do you think it would be good to deploy first and get they first turn? Or better to be able to deploy in relation to how he deploys?

okay as a dark eldar player since the first codex came out in 98 there are a few good tips for beating them that have remained true through the new dex.

1. First and formost dark lances are NOT that good. and in the new dex its allot hard to spam them in small point costs because you can't have min squad warriors anymore with them and the price has gone up. Do not be to scared of them. And to be frank if your armor is 12 or less they are just krak missiles. last edition I could have more than 20 dark lances in a 1500 point list now 15 is all you are probably going to see

2. Meltas are worthless. Since all DE armor is 10 and maxed at 11 a melta is just krak missile that has +1 to the vehicle damage chart especially if your opponent uses nightshields making it impossible to be in melta range. Instead of using high strength single shot weapons use mutli shot weapons. Multilasers, autocannons assault cannons all work very well against DE an dstill get the +! to damage most of the the time because most of the transports are open topped.

3. avoid CC to be honest. DE have higher I than you do and they have access to unist that either can survive power weapons aka wyches or units with them and s 4 incubi.

Like some of these people have been saying take out the transports/ravagers first.

Hope this helps

Cheers Dumpling man, i wasnt definately not planning on getting into close combat, but i unfortunately understand that agaisnt DE it is inevitable

do you think that taking terminators would be worth it? i was thinking of taking TH terminators and putting Huron(who would replace Culln) in there to counter The Incubi? Although im not sure if i have the points. Do you think i should a Hellhound instead of a LR ?

TH/SS Termies versus incubi: 5v5.
It is very likely that the incubi will get the assault off unless you can cap their transport and they fail to assault you via fleet(the run does not roll up enough distance) So that is 15 attacks at I5 for the Incubi(no Klaivex), 10 should hit, 5 should wound, 1.666 Termies should die(Round up to 2)

We will now assume your sgt did not die, so 7 attacks back 3.5 hit, 2.916 incubi Die(3)you win combat and they are no longer a threat(if they fail they continue running off board, if they pass you kill them in your assault phase and they kill another .444 Termies, so maybe 1 more).

That is of course in a vacuum; but if the opponent starts off with 10 incubi and you manage to kill 5 on their way to the termies it is statistically accurate.

Yes, i would go with the hell-hound, but keep it hidden until the Darklances are gone, then waste incoming troops.

I would expect to face between 7 to 9 DE transports between 1500 and 1850 points. My goal would be to knock out half of them reliably turn one - so 4 or 5. This will disrupt his plan of attack (bloody his nose). DE do not like it when their plan tursn to GROX. DE also do not like to reserve their units as it dilutes their ability to destroy you and also allows you to focus firepower on their transports.

Determine which units in your codex that can penetrate AV 10 from a distance of 36 inches or more. Include 7 or 8 of them. Remember to focus on disrupting his initial push and remain disciplined with your firing. Get a result that stops the transport and move to the next target. The effect youre looking for is that he wont be fluid and capable of mounting a focused attack on a flank.

this is my newest list update, hopefully i will get the first turn, or if not, sieze the initizive(wich huron lets me re-roll)

HQ:
Centurian storm bolter, Chainsword, combat shield 65

Huron 235
Elite:
Terminators Thunder Hammer, Storm Shields 200
Troops:
20 Marines 4 heavy bolters 340

40 Auxilia 4 flamers, frag grenades 160
Fast Attack:
Hellhound Extra Armour 130

Heavy Support:
Leman Russ sponsons, camo-netting 190

Thunderer Camo-Netting

Any comments/critisisms are welcome

It is silly to assume you will seize the initiative. If you deploy expecting it, you'll get screwed. If you go second, assume you will, and plan accordingly. It'll be nice if it happens, but the odds are against you.

I don't know what the thunderer does. But I do know that 2 tanks will likely die in one turn, and if that is one big mob of marines, I'll be putting 16 wounds on it turn 1. Which should kill the 5 I need to force a test. Your return fire will kill 1 vehicle (since you have 4 heavy bolters in one unit).

Are auxilia good in combat? I'd worry that they'll get flamed/chopped up in combat. Which is fine if they are bubble wrap, but less so if you want offensive output.

I guess my question to you is why such big blobs? You are unable to engage as many targets, and at 1500, my DE list has 9-11 vehicles (depending on how many ravagers I'd bring).

Well are you sure hes not going too be using viod dragons and razorwings?? Those two units can wreck havoc on Gaurd units.... if there equipment with night shields and flickershields, and shatterfield missiles, viod lances and viod mine.
Ive been using those in my army instead of ravagers for anti tank/ infantry units...
there scoring kills after kills before there taking down..( any experience DE will protect them like his did with raiders..... and that 36 in turbo is nice with i move at cruising speed and fire all my weapons is even better.

StarGate wrote: Well are you sure hes not going too be using viod dragons and razorwings?? Those two units can wreck havoc on Gaurd units.... if there equipment with night shields and flickershields, and shatterfield missiles, viod lances and viod mine.
Ive been using those in my army instead of ravagers for anti tank/ infantry units...
there scoring kills after kills before there taking down..( any experience DE will protect them like his did with raiders..... and that 36 in turbo is nice with i move at cruising speed and fire all my weapons is even better.

Void Dragons?

I'd crap my pants if someone was using the Void Dragon. Now the Void raven, thats not so scary.

a) Demech him. It isn't as easy as everyone makes it out to be, but it also isn't as hard as other armies. If you don't get after them, Dark Lances can and WILL ruin your day. An average list has around 12 DL. 8 will hit, 2 or 3 will pen. If you can live with that, then don't worry about them, but for every army I know, that is a serious threat.

b) If he runs a Flyer, it is priority number one, even above ravagers. If its a Razorwing, you are looking at twin-linked splinter rifles, a pair of dark lances, and 4 missiles. He has four different missiles to choose from, and each of them are horrifying LB weapons. If he unloads them all, a unit WILL die. Voidravens are frankly worse, since they also have a void mine and a pair of void lances instead of DL.

c) Once he is demeched, hit Incubi, Reavers, Wyches, and Warriors in that order. If Incubi close, they will usually screw you up. I would assume he runs either an Archon or an IC with the squad, since its fairly standard, and if he is you can bet the HQ will have some shiny, pants-crapping toys. Reavers will buzz your infantry and have a constant 3++ save, so stopping that sooner is better.

d) Don't let things die needlessly. DE thrive on popping suicide units or things that are weak, as it just makes them better and better. If you have MSU, try to keep them away as much as possible, as it just lets him get FnP, FC, and Fearless.

If you are using a full unit of 20 Marines, I would consider taking Valthex. Being able to turn that squads boltguns into poisoned 2+ . Though against most T3 guys you are already wounding on 3+.

Veldrain wrote:If you are using a full unit of 20 Marines, I would consider taking Valthex. Being able to turn that squads boltguns into poisoned 2+ . Though against most T3 guys you are already wounding on 3+.

If the St carries over unlike the sternguard psn 2+ it may be worth it

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:

Veldrain wrote:If you are using a full unit of 20 Marines, I would consider taking Valthex. Being able to turn that squads boltguns into poisoned 2+ . Though against most T3 guys you are already wounding on 3+.

If the St carries over unlike the sternguard psn 2+ it may be worth it

Being FW, they didn't say say one way or he other. I've now wanted to try running a full 10 termies with storm bolters that wound on 2+ with this guy.

PS, it states that the effect includes bolt pistols, but I woudn't try claim the pistol is poisoned in cc.

Cheers for all the help guys ! Unfortunately I lost though I could blame my dice or, talk about how my opponent was lucky , but I'm gonna do the honourable thing and take responsibility my self. Even though the DE were incredibly fast!

We rolled a annihilation game with the Dawn of war deployment. The night fight rules didn't help me much but alas, "s**t happenz". It lasted 6 turns buy the end of I had only a hellhound left I managed to scape 4 KP I would have got 5 or more if I had remembered to shoot my hellhound when it arrived. Unfortunately the termies didn't do aswell as I hope they would. Fortunately I did better then the last person he played against, who was tabled pretty quickly

All I'm all I was out played but still enjoyed the game! That's what the hobby is all about.