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Hi all

Im thinking of taking 4 missile launchers and a CML in my marine list.

There is a heap of marine players around where I am, CSM and the various imperial tribes.

So im thinking assuming a squad of X number of T4 troops with their 3+ save, is it smarter to go Krak or Frag?

If you can hit with a Krak then its game over on 2+ to wound, but thats one marine. So assuming no cover save 3+ to hit (67% probability) and 2+ to wound (83%) with total likely death 20/36 or 56% probability.

How would you work the maths hammer with scatter using BS4 assuming you could hit 3 marine bases, 50% wound then 33% prob they fail their armour save?

Of course using a devestator sgt +1 to BS and cover save makes this more complex however for argument sake assume enemy marines are in the open with clear fire lane.

Thanks in advance for help.

Frag blast. Marines die when saves are forced as cover is quite easy to get.


and don't use Devestators. Typhoon speeders provide more bang for your buck

If they are in cover I agree with Grey Templar. But if you can get them in the open, then just let'em have it with krak - I'd rather have almost every hit drop a marine than fail my 4+ to wound and watch them make their saves.

mmmm.... good question. if they're out in the open I would shoot a krak missile. if they're in cover the frag probably makes more sense.

I reason you're better off taking that one guy out on a 3+/2+. If you assume your frag round hits 3 guys (about average) and you also assume that they all wound (which they wont) then you're breaking even on the frag missile. assuming it doesnt scatter (which it usually will). cover brings the odds pretty much in line for either kind of missile so I would use the frag missile. If the dice go your way you could end up killing more than 1 guy, but a marine with a krak missile will only ever kill 1 marine at best.

Grey Templar wrote:Frag blast. Marines die when saves are forced as cover is quite easy to get.


and don't use Devestators. Typhoon speeders provide more bang for your buck

This part I agree with. I really think people under estimate speeders in a big way. They are cheap, really fast, and can pack a serious punch depending on loadout.


But I disagree on the frag. Maybe if its ALOT of templates(either max out on your missile launchers in squads, or SW type of missile FU) then frag works. But when I played SM (this was awhile ago) I used to do that all the time, thinking the same, more armor saves, more dead marines. The problem is they have really good armor saves, so forcing 3 saves, you better not be hoping for alot of fails

I agree with Kingcracker. I would almost certainly go with Krak Missiles, especially if they are in the open without cover. Against MEQ's, I actually like running 2 Devastator Squads all with ML's. 8 ML's on an open squad will mathematically kill half of it, and if you don't have any Marines to shoot at, ML's are still good at Anti-Tank against Rhinos, Razorbacks, Drop Pods, and anything else AV 12 or less.

CML/TML's are good if you're running a lot of Land Speeders and Terminators. However, Terminators will get pretty expensive at 10 models, and while the Land Speeders will get you 2 shots on a 12" move, it's only AV 10, and a prime target for many Heavy Weapons. Devastator Squads can find cover, bunker down in a building, and cover a long range on the board. Plus, if the squad is maxed to 10 models, you have good wound allocation if they take any fire.

But like what was said, it depends on the loadout. ML's are the most versatile of all Heavy Weapons. The more you have, the better you're off (at least against MEQ's).

Appreciate all the comments and thinking behind the comments here

The actual list and some of my thinking behind it is here if you want to have a look

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/328527.page#2129283

@GreyTemplar I have tried to minimise vehicles in this list given the proliferation of melta in the modern game. I think I need a LR for its godhammer lascannon goodness as well as giving my demonprince/MC hunting TH terminator squad a good projection radius, and have two rhinos for mobility of flamer and melta combat teams, two speeders for mobile heavy flamer and MM however have avoided more vehicles such as vindicators and predators or even second LR because of the melta threat and they all effectively only have one wound

@Rurouni - firstly that Ultras record is outstanding! great work. Secondly I cannot bring myself to max out the devs with ablative wounds. Thinking is in the thread with the list, in summary if they take the opportunity cost of taking out my MLs (in cover) then im content because they are avoiding other weapons platforms im confident I can probably do more with.

I shot krak at marines that are spread out but if there in a tight group i'll shot frags. Missiles are very nice because of the mech army's out there and i'd go with typhoons over devs.

Hmm. A set of four Krak Missiles hitting on 3+, wounding on 2+ you get:

4*(4/6)*(5/6) = 80/36

A set of four Frag Missiles wounding on 4+, saving on 3+

4*(3/6)*(2/6) = 24/36

In other words the Frag Missiles would need to be able to hit between 3-4 Marines per missile. They only need to hit 2 Space Marines per Frag Missile if they're in cover thanks to (3/6) or Cv4+.

Personally I think you're better off with Plasma Cannons. You get less range and less anti-vehicle, but you murder infantry. If you want to kill light vehicles then you're better off with Autocannons, and Lascannons.

Something else to remember is that the guys with Bolters can contribute to anti-infantry work, and Combat Squadding enables the Devastator unit to split incoming and outgoing firepower.

Sometimes the extra points for plasma cannons just are not there, but agree they are the bomb.

if all you want to do is kill MEQs then the plasma cannon is obviously the better choice. I assumed OP had already made up his mind to take missile launchers and just wanted a little tactical advice.