playing DA with both DA & SM codex

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**dark6spectre**

as many DA players know, the DA codex is pretty weak in comparison with the SM codex, not just the small amount of units DA can use, but also what the equipment and points of the squads are (e.g. SM assault marines can have up to 2 flamers, DA assault marines: 0). So i was thinking if it was a good idea to play with my mates (not in GW or whatever) by using the DA codex and SM codex combined. you may ask why not just use SM codex, but the SM codex does not contain either DA special characters or ravenwing squadrons.

but to confer with you, i would like to know should i:

1. use DA codex for everything, and then for non DA units (e.g thunderfire cannons) use SM codex

or

2. Use SM codex for everything, but for terminators and Ravenwing + possibly DA veterans use DA codex

**Catyrpelius**

I think you should run from one and only one codex.

Should I be allowed as a Space Marine player to feild assult Marines as troops like in the Blood Angels Codex, or as a Blood Angels player should i be allowed to field a thunderfire cannon. The ansewer to both of these questions is no. Stick to your codex.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Depends on what your friends say. Personally I think the DA should get access to the Redeemer Raider, the upgraded Storm Shields, new Apothecary rules, Terminator Captains, Chief Librarians that can take Terminator armor, and use the rules for the new Ven Dread, and have their Tactical, Devi and Assault squads more in line with the SM codex, since after the first two companies they do follow Codex Astartes.

Ravenwing and Deathwing should largely remain the same, Although Azrael, Beilail and Sammael should get an increased WS (and compensating points increase to reflect that) due to them being Masters of the Chapter.

As for Thunder Fire Cannons and Land Speeder Storms, probably not. As a rule of thumb only use units common to C:SM, C:BA and C:SW. I personally would never mind these changes. You're paying the points for inferior troops, I'd give you the benefit of the doubt.

**DarknessEternal**

GW gives you the option to mix the two codices, but I recommend against it.

Not for any balance reason, just that the Dark Angel codex is so terrible. There's no reason to use any of it if you can just use C:SM instead. I've played many a game with Dark Angels players who tried using both. They unanimously all play just out of C:SM now.

Not even any DA characters are worth anything.

**Tazok**

I say pick your poison. No codex is perfect and trying to combine more than one is unsporting.

**DarknessEternal**

How is unsporting when sanctioned and recommended by GW?

**Tazok**

I've never seen GW sanction players combining the Dark Angels Codex and the Space Marine Codex, do you have an official reference to this?

**dark6spectre**

yeah, i have never seen any reference to GW recommending using both

**SoloFalcon1138**

neither have I... therefore, you need to choose whether you are playing Dark Angels, or green Space Marines.

**andrewm9**

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:neither have I... therefore, you need to choose whether you are playing Dark Angels, or green Space Marines.

The Dark Angel FAQ suggests that its possible si where he may be drawing the conclusion. The say the default solution things is to ionly use 1 codex but on a case by case basis as long as both sides agree then you can use things from both codexes. They have a long talk about fairness and honor too. Its quite amusing.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Tazok wrote:I've never seen GW sanction players combining the Dark Angels Codex and the Space Marine Codex, do you have an official reference to this?

It's mentioned in the FAQs that players should give a degree of understanding to others who want to combine elements of the codex, due to the updated rules in the new C:SM. However they also said that it might unbalance the game since the units were not designed with those effects in mind so it's not officially sanctioned in tournaments, but indeed recommended as the DA codex lost almost all of it's character due to the new SM and SW Codexes (Namely Loganwing and SM Captains on Bikes).

EDIT: Damnit I got outposted AGAIN! >_<

**Alkasyn**

Even updating the most obvious things like storm shields or apothecary rules carries with it the shadow of imbalance, as the point cost cannot really be fixed at an appropriate level by a normal player like you and me. I tried doing that with Deamonhunters and had wierd things like a 5++ Invuln costing 15 points and a stormshield costing 10.

**Th3ee Legged Dog**

I would simply use the vanilla codex until you guys see an update.

If your dead set on using the Deathwing/ravenwing then I would suggest using the DA codex for that and only that.

**timetowaste85**

Yea, I'd kind of like to see that too-a GW sanctioned combination. Or do you mean that SM can get bikes as troops w/ a Captain? Because, that isn't much "combination of codecies"...

**dark6spectre**

well the biggest hate i have with the current DA codex is that Tac squads are the only troop choice, and i really wish to be able to use scouts as troops aswell.

and btw just found the pdf for the FAQs, and since i don't game much i'll really only have to confer with my mates if i can use both, which they'll probably agree to.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
http://www.thedarkfortress.co.uk/downloads/Unofficial_Dark_Angels_FAQv0.1.pdf

found this i guess this sorts out the majority of the points issues

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

I'd Just play with the marine codex, better point costs, etc

**Capt_Bowman**

Yeah, I say pick one and run with it. If you want to use both then pick them as allies and pick both forces as though they were independent forces using the FOC for each one. (min HQ and 2 troops for each one).

**punkow**

It's boring but... You should use simply C: SM ... I represent various companies and generals of the DA codex with chapter tactics of C:SM special charcters (and now Imperial armour 9)

For example : Zeruel the purifier, master of the 4th company follows Vulkan He'stan rules, Gauron the unbreakable, master of 6th company follows Kantor's rules, Sammael is korsarro khan etc...
Carab Culln from Imperial armour 9 represents Belial (he's the ultimate Marine close combat monster , but I still can't figure out if it's worth his points...

So 2 suggestions:
-use Codex SM only... It's sad but we have to...
-have a check to IA 9... It's plenty of cool characthers and chapter tactics (and it's a wonderful book, that's worth the money)

**dark6spectre**

right, so what about the ravenwing, i have one squadron battleforce, and will use a termie squad in conjunction, so i should i just play the ravenwing as individual bikes squadrons like in C:SM with the deathwing acting like SM termies, sorry i think im getting repetitive again =D

**DarknessEternal**

Ravenwing is easy to replicate in C:SM. Just take a Captain on a bike and your bike squads will be Troops. If you meant using Ravenwing with the speeders attached to the bikes, that's always been a stupid way to do things anyway and you should enjoy not having to do that.

**dark6spectre**

DarknessEternal, im not on about using a Ravenwing army, im just saying incorperating a squadron into my 3000+ pts army, as my 2 HQs are a captain and a chaplain. i meant just using up a fast attack choice with a ravenwing squadron. the main force are all footsloggers.

**MechaEmperor7000**

The only thing you cant replicate from the DA codex with C:SM is the Master of Ravenwing, and that's only his special rules not army deployment. Azrael is a Chaptermaster with Artificer armor, and Beilal is a Captain in Terminator Armor. Everything else is standard C:SM fare, unless you actually want Fearless instead of Combat Tactics.

**SoloFalcon1138**

MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The only thing you cant replicate from the DA codex with C:SM is the Master of Ravenwing, and that's only his special rules not army deployment. Azrael is a Chaptermaster with Artificer armor, and Beilal is a Captain in Terminator Armor. Everything else is standard C:SM fare, unless you actually want Fearless instead of Combat Tactics.

That's also forgetting the Lion's Helm +4 invulnerable save, Belial's ability to field terminators as troops, among other things like company veterans... Trust me, everyone's insistence that the Dark Angels could be stuck in as a C:SM variant have a lot to account for...

**MechaEmperor7000**

Loganwing accoutns for the Terminators, also I forgot to mention that in the original post, and Sanguinary priests can give people FnP, which may be the same, better, or worse than a 4+ invul depending on situation, although with the abundance of Cover saves running around a 4+ squad invul doesnt seem that appealing unless you're going to charge into PW troops or terminators. Company Vets are pretty much a worse version of Sternguard.

**Th3ee Legged Dog**

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:
MechaEmperor7000 wrote:The only thing you cant replicate from the DA codex with C:SM is the Master of Ravenwing, and that's only his special rules not army deployment. Azrael is a Chaptermaster with Artificer armor, and Beilal is a Captain in Terminator Armor. Everything else is standard C:SM fare, unless you actually want Fearless instead of Combat Tactics.

That's also forgetting the Lion's Helm +4 invulnerable save, Belial's ability to field terminators as troops, among other things like company veterans... Trust me, everyone's insistence that the Dark Angels could be stuck in as a C:SM variant have a lot to account for...

I agree with this, you guys deserve your own codex, sadly I dont see it happening for some time.