What list to use as a Fallen Angels Warband.

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**MechaEmperor7000**

Dont exactly know if this belongs in general discussion or army list, so please move it mods if you think it's better there.

Anyways, after finding out how cheap the DA Sprues are compared to how much you'd get, I was thinking of making a Fallen Angels Warband. This will be a modest 500-1000 point force, consisting of models only from the Chaos Battleforce, Ravenwing Boxset, and Dark Angel Upgrade sprue. Their leader is none other than Cypher, the most hated of fallens. However I dont know which list will represent them well. There will be no heavy weapons in the army as I believe the Fallen are a mobile force, ever running from the Pursuing Unforgiven. This also means they'll lack tanks too. Since they are millennia upon millennias old, I would think that they'd be more of an elite army rather than one of massing. Personally I think an Astorath-led DC army would be the best to represent them, as they are an elite force and Fallen cant be counted on to hold objectives. However Cypher is the leader and he doesnt exactly have wings, so representing Astorath might not work.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Bumpy. I really need some input. =(

**jdjamesdean@mail.com**

I suppose BA would be the best to use, DC sound great for that purpose, maybe seth? or Tycho to use

**sourclams**

I'd use Space Wolves led by Logan Grimnar with multiple HQ options and Wolf Guard as all your troops. This gives you a foot army that can drop pod, it gives you a relatively elite army (read: small) with options for highly variable wargear, and you can fill out 4 HQ slots for a warband/heroes on the run kind of feel, all of which I think you're shooting for.

**Magister187**

Honestly, it doesn't seem to me like any standard codex would represent this properly.

**sourclams**

They wouldn't, of course. But of all the codicies I'd use SW because it gives you the most customization.

**Brother Heinrich**

agreed, in hodge-podge warband terms, the loganwing list is going to give the most variance, as well as an elite individualized feel in your army

**MechaEmperor7000**

The only problem with Loganwing is representing Logan himself. I want Cypher to be the sole leader of this warband, and he's like the polar opposite of both Astorath and Logan (somehow). Worse comes to worse I might cave and convert a Fallen Chaptermaster (dont know how that would work, as I doubt the original legion had chaptermasters, but there is one in fluff so i guess that was a sort of rank back then) in Terminator armor to represent Logan.

**The Power Cosmic**

I think the wolf codex is a good choice. Cypher's not stupid enough to jump out in front and say, "Hey, I'm the leader! Me! Cypher!" He'll let someone else do that while he skirts around the edges doing whatever he needs to do. Make Cypher a Lone Wolf model while the bigger guys lead from the front. Of course, everyone on your side knows who the real leader is, and what happens when they cross him, but your enemy will be distracted into killing the biggest and baddest.

**MechaEmperor7000**

Cypher might be a custom Wolf Lord. Lone wolf doesnt seem like his type (he's trying to avoid combat not charge into it). However for Loganwing I'll need to look to fluff for a suitable Terminator Lord.

Also, do you think people would have problems with Fallen "Ravenwing" bikers being used as TWC? Blood Claw Bikers dont seem to do the Fallen Bikers any justice.

**candy.man**

As someone whose known chaos for 10 years and owns 3 chaos codices, I can safely say that the Space Wolves codex is a terrible codex to represent a Fallen Angels army. The Fallen Angels are specialists and they don't follow a "smash the opponents head in" via terminators and TWC that the Wolf codex encourages. The Fallen Angels specialise in subtlety and secrecy and thus the army should reflect this. That being said, none of the codices do them justice.

In the 3.0 (not the 3.5 white dwarf version) codex, the Cypher's fallen angels counted as veteran chaos space marines with ATSKNF. Veteran Chaos Space Marines were regular Chaos Space Marines who had the infiltrators USR and if a player took a Lord with the Mark of Chaos Undivided, they could be unlocked as a troop choice. Although both incarnations of Cypher’s rules only ever allowed you to take 1 squad of Fallen Angels and there has never been a rule set for an entire army of Fallen Angels.

Therefore in order to represent this, I think the closest possible result would be running an army using the Vanilla Space Marines book, with a “counts as” Kor’sarro Khan. Khan confers army wide outflank to all units in transports and this is pretty close to infiltrators that the Fallen Angels used to have. Doing this, you can have “counts as” Khan either accompanying some “counts as” Fallen Angels Ravenwing or have Khan on foot with some Fallen Angels specialists in a transport. Tatics wise, you would want to confuse your opponent with both outflanking and regular deployed/deep striking units.

Cypher himself can proxy a Chaplain with a plasma pistol rulewise. Rulewise, Cypher was a 2W character with a 4+ inv save, plasma pistol, bolt pistol and a power weapon and this is pretty close to the chaplain. The motivational abilities of the chaplain fit in with the enigmatic nature of Cypher. Otherwise an SM captain with a power weapon and a plasma pistol would also work as the captain has a better BS than the chaplain and Cypher was a high BS character.

**MechaEmperor7000**

That's actually the best argument I've seen made for the Fallen. A Fallen "Ravenwing" master counting as Khan on a bike, with bikers taken as troop choices and the footsloggers taken as Sternguard Vets. Cypher himself can proxy as the Captain, the Chaplain doesnt seem to fit him, and looses alot of stats for a meager point decrease and Fallen are probably not going to charge into combat that much.

**candy.man**

You could still take a rhino/razorback for your sternguard and not necessarily footslog them. That way Cypher and his Sternguard could outflank as well and mess with the opponent.

**MechaEmperor7000**

For that I might just borrow a Rhino from my Standard Marine Army. I'd expect the fallen to "commandeer" a transport rather than maintain one.

Also, I'm leaning towards giving the Fallen Plasma Weapons. Dont know if this is actually fluffy with them, but DA seems to have a thing with plasma (Plasma cannon on the Ravenwing Master's bike, and Cypher wields a Plasma Pistol).