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I've just signed up so first of all, howdy, and now to business. I recently played a game, standard 1,500pts, and on turn 4 of my opponents movement phase, he promptly rolled for reserves and guessed what popped up, a super-heavy tank. I wanted your opinions on whether this should be allowed as i didn't have alot that could put up with it. i don't believe that there is any rule saying you can't but it was a tad one-sided. To that extent I always imagined it would should have been mentioned before the battle so i could at least try and pack some power but my army was selected mainly for combat so it was a surprise to say the least. hopefully you guys can back me up on this.

Yeah, this is totally not legit.

You can only use superheavies in an Apoc game. And, both players should be aware of what game they're playing.

Also, I typically play where all units have to be disclosed before deployment. Is that not normal?

thank you man, glad to hear it. It was Armour 14 and i had one Lascannon in the whole force. Needless to say it was one-sided.

Secrets&Lies wrote:thank you man, glad to hear it. It was Armour 14 and i had one Lascannon in the whole force. Needless to say it was one-sided.

Well, Armor 14 doesn't make it a superheavy.

Do you remember what tank it was?

firstly, no room for sh in foc

Nothing with using super heavies in non-apoc game if your opponent is ok with it but it definitely needs to be announced beforehand and the opponent should be able to tailor his list as most armies won't be able to handle it.

If your opponent insists on using the superheavy without notice, go out an buy some Chaos Knights for Fantasy and enjoy your 0+ save. Nothing says you can't use them either, except that like the super-heavies they were intended for a different game. If you want a list of reasons.

1. Doesn't fit in force org chart
2. No rules for D weapons
3. No rules for primary weapons
4. No rules for structure points
5. No special rules for damage table

hey Grakmar.

Twas a Necron Pylon so Armour 14 all round. He told me he had reserves and at the worst i thought maybe a Monolith but wasn't expecting it. I didn't want to say he couldn't use it as it was turn four but it really changed things.

what with living metal and all its hard even to scratch the thing.

Secrets&Lies wrote:hey Grakmar.

Twas a Necron Pylon so Armour 14 all round. He told me he had reserves and at the worst i thought maybe a Monolith but wasn't expecting it. I didn't want to say he couldn't use it as it was turn four but it really changed things.

what with living metal and all its hard even to scratch the thing.

Yeah, the Pylon is totally not allowed in standard 40k.

Did he at least let you wipe out the rest of the Necrons and declare: "Phase out, I win!"

steinerp wrote:Nothing with using super heavies in non-apoc game if your opponent is ok with it but it definitely needs to be announced beforehand and the opponent should be able to tailor his list as most armies won't be able to handle it.

If your opponent insists on using the superheavy without notice, go out an buy some Chaos Knights for Fantasy and enjoy your 0+ save. Nothing says you can't use them either, except that like the super-heavies they were intended for a different game. If you want a list of reasons.

1. Doesn't fit in force org chart
2. No rules for D weapons
3. No rules for primary weapons
4. No rules for structure points
5. No special rules for damage table

Yeah thats what i thought. i would have let him use the thing if i'd known. I started back with fourth edition rules so i remember when you had to ask permission to use characters so i'm used to sharing my army lists before hand. I don't mind a surprise but this was a little much.

thanks again.

Secrets&Lies wrote: He told me he had reserves and at the worst i thought maybe a Monolith but wasn't expecting it.

As per the Reserves rules, he has to actually tell you what is in Reserve, and how it is arriving when it does so.

Grakmar wrote:

Secrets&Lies wrote:hey Grakmar.

Twas a Necron Pylon so Armour 14 all round. He told me he had reserves and at the worst i thought maybe a Monolith but wasn't expecting it. I didn't want to say he couldn't use it as it was turn four but it really changed things.

what with living metal and all its hard even to scratch the thing.

Yeah, the Pylon is totally not allowed in standard 40k.

Did he at least let you wipe out the rest of the Necrons and declare: "Phase out, I win!"

Nah, sorry to let you down but my guys were left in no-mans land after it peeled open their rhinos. I had two rhino's and razorback within 12" all filled with a my best close combat troops and wham it rises up, pushes one rhino to one side and pinned it between some trees and itself. it promptly destroyed another and most of the guys in the explosion.

this guy also keeps every squad of his with his lord slap bang in the middle so it takes ages just to take a few down.

Apocalypse isn't 40k.

If the vehicle is not in the 40k codex you have no right to use it in 40k without permission.

also and sorry for going a little off topic but i've been told recently that the vortex grenade has been taken out of apocalypse. i searched through Apocalypse reloaded and haven't seen anything to confirm this claim but he is adamant.

I have also used a Necron Pylon in a 1500pt game and they are very nasty (i love them so much) but i did inform my opponent well in advance to give him time to tinker with his unit list and agree if i could field it or not, i only did this to try out its abilities before i have to use it in a campaign where 3000+ will be the norm, i had been away from the game for 2-3 years and found the rules for it i had used in a previous game of 4000pts the week before were no longer valid as i browsed the apocalypse expansion book and needed to see how the new rules fared in battle.
In my case my opponent knew i would field that particular model, he had time to rewrite his army list to suit the battle and if wished too he could have requested i leave it off which i would of done as its in the spirit of the game, you should of had all these before the battle commenced otherwise it really isnt fair and as you have already stated, it did make the battle one sided by a large margin which isn't that fun for you.

Word to the wise Secrets&Lies, if he does as you say with the squads of warriors (i presume) and his lord then concentrated firepower on a single unit is the best solution, go for the smaller squad or if equal in size the closest unit, if you can knock them all down whatever gets back up will join his main squad and do the same with them, this is harder than it sounds though.

And the Vortex Grenade is still in as Apocalypse Reloaded is an add-on to Apocalypse, it adds new assets but does not remove the old ones.

The vortex grenade IS in normal Apocalypse. Apoc Reloaded is an expansion to the expansion

You can take a super heavy per a spearhead formation thingy, but of course you have to agree to him using a spearhead formation in the first place =).

You can take super-heavies in 40K using IA rules.

However, a superheavy tank detachment takes up an entire force org chart so you can only use them where you've agreed to use multiple force orgs (letting you take six heavy support if you wanted...)

IA1 wrote:you may only include one super-heavy tank detachment in your army for each 'normal' detachment that you field. This limits the use of superheavy tanks to large games over 2000 points

Userarm wrote:I have also used a Necron Pylon in a 1500pt game and they are very nasty (i love them so much) but i did inform my opponent well in advance to give him time to tinker with his unit list and agree if i could field it or not, i only did this to try out its abilities before i have to use it in a campaign where 3000+ will be the norm, i had been away from the game for 2-3 years and found the rules for it i had used in a previous game of 4000pts the week before were no longer valid as i browsed the apocalypse expansion book and needed to see how the new rules fared in battle.
In my case my opponent knew i would field that particular model, he had time to rewrite his army list to suit the battle and if wished too he could have requested i leave it off which i would of done as its in the spirit of the game, you should of had all these before the battle commenced otherwise it really isnt fair and as you have already stated, it did make the battle one sided by a large margin which isn't that fun for you.

Word to the wise Secrets&Lies, if he does as you say with the squads of warriors (i presume) and his lord then concentrated firepower on a single unit is the best solution, go for the smaller squad or if equal in size the closest unit, if you can knock them all down whatever gets back up will join his main squad and do the same with them, this is harder than it sounds though.

And the Vortex Grenade is still in as Apocalypse Reloaded is an add-on to Apocalypse, it adds new assets but does not remove the old ones.

you mean theres two necron pylons in use!!!!!!!!! that ork describes just how i feel.

For now there is, until i can afford another 2 more (bwahahaha - end evil laugh) and thats after i put together my other 2 Tomb Stalkers (one is all done and painted and looks really cool, may put pics up later) so 3 of them in total, then i just need 4 more Monoliths aswell to round that upto 5, so if you think its bad he used a Pylon, think how my opponents will eventually feel (resume evil laugh - bwahahaha)

what next, world domination Userarm!!!

tomb stalkers too!!! i've been hoping my local GW would get one to showcase. how big are they? The base looks like a monstrous creature base but its hard to see the scale.

hmmm world domination, evil plans afoot lol

The Tomb Stalkers look billiant when done right, as i say i'll try to put a pick up later if i can get a decent camera and you will see the size comparison with a normal necron.

The base itself is 12cm long and 9.5cm wide in an oval shape so pretty damn big and if stretched out flat from the tip of the blades on its behind to the tip of the guns at the front it would be approx 18cm long, it can vary in height depending how you pose it as every body section (thats 12 in total) is seperate to allow for customization.

This might help with getting the sense of scale:

Holy eye of terror Batman!!!

i have one of those statues. the stats must be pretty good for that thing i'm guessing. no doubt it never dies either just like the rest of the necron army. I've seen one of the Tyranid Trygons up close and its on a base that size so it must be pretty big. The trygon is fairly tall too so the Stalker must be close in length.

oh and by the way, thats a cool conversion

Luckily, the rules for it are free until FW finally gets around to doing a Necron book, or IA Apoc 3. The downloads a bit hard to find, but here it is:

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Downloads/Product/PDF/t/tstalker.pdf

I should have mentioned that's not my model, but it is a cool conversion all the same. It's based on the same one the Trygon and Valkyrie are, btw.

I should also note that the Tomb Stalker isn't a superheavy or anything, and generally would be allowable in friendly games of 40k. Most tournaments don't allow Forge World items, however, so he'd be verboten in that environment.

Its a good conversion however alot of the detail work to paint and make it stand out more is underneath on its belly, for me personally i would rather show off the detail work underneath than have it posed where barely none of it is visible but in the end it still looks pretty damn cool...

i dunno i like the whole 'stalking on a large statue and then i'm going to pull you apart' pose. it gets used alot but still pretty good.