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Alright gang, there are so many answers that differ out there, I am hoping someone can shed some light a a few sticky rules we have come up against at the FLGS.

1) Scenario: A unit of SMs Devastators shoot thier lascannons at a hive tyrant (an MC) LOS is drawn from a elevated building (squad is in the windows of a building on Levels 2 and 3) to the MC.

Q: Does the SM unit have clear LOS or does the squad of Termagaunts in front of the Hive Tyrant provide a cover save?

Q: Does a MC block LOS for a group of Termagaunts if they are shooting through the base? Is it true LOS,Magic Cylinder or Magic Cylinder lite? What is the official stance?

Q: Could the Tyranid player assign the AP1 Lascannon hit to a Tyrant Guard behind the Hive Tyrant, then take a 4+ cover save because the SMs are said to now be firing through a MC base?

Q: Does standing in a "River" style dangerous terrain feature confer a cover save (it was not agreed as a cover saving feature before the game) to a unit of Tyrant Guard and a Hive Tyrant if the MC and 1 Guard are in it?

2) A unit of jump packers are in a building, and are leaving the cover of building, not moving 12 but moving 6, do they have to test for dangerous terrain?

3) A unit moves into dangerous terrain, and makes it's rolls, does it have to roll to leave the dangerous terrain when it moves out of the terrain?

4) Can a Librarian Dread still use psychic powers? If it is wrecked by being imobilized and having all its weapons destroyed.

5) Does a unit in cover then assaulting count as having assaulted through cover to a unit in the open?

Thanks in advance for clearing some of this up.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does the SM unit have clear LOS or does the squad of Termagaunts in front of the Hive Tyrant provide a cover save?

Probably but cannot say without looking. Monstrous Creatures need to be 50% hidden, and it is almost impossible to do this with gaunts of any type.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does a MC block LOS for a group of Termagaunts if they are shooting through the base? Is it true LOS,Magic Cylinder or Magic Cylinder lite? What is the official stance?

True LoS for this edition, you would only get cover if the tyrant obscures 50% of the models or more than half need to draw LoS through it.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Could the Tyranid player assign the AP1 Lascannon hit to a Tyrant Guard behind the Hive Tyrant, then take a 4+ cover save because the SMs are said to now be firing through a MC base?

Not if they are in the same unit he cannot. That is the only way to assign one to the guard ifyou are shooting at the tyrant. Also, cover saves are worked out by unit so either the guard have cover or they do not. You cannot move wounds to specific models in cover.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does standing in a "River" style dangerous terrain feature confer a cover save (it was not agreed as a cover saving feature before the game) to a unit of Tyrant Guard and a Hive Tyrant if the MC and 1 Guard are in it?

Yes as half the unit is in cover, they qualify for a cover save.

Connor McKane wrote:
2) A unit of jump packers are in a building, and are leaving the cover of building, not moving 12 but moving 6, do they have to test for dangerous terrain?

If they test for difficult terrain to move through the building they do not.

Connor McKane wrote:
3) A unit moves into dangerous terrain, and makes it's rolls, does it have to roll to leave the dangerous terrain when it moves out of the terrain?

It does have to roll every time it moves through the dangerous terrain element. These rolls are by model, so if you have a sanguinary priest fail his dangerous terrain he is dead, you cannot allocate it elsewhere.

Connor McKane wrote:
4) Can a Librarian Dread still use psychic powers? If it is wrecked by being imobilized and having all its weapons destroyed.

No, it is destroyed. Can a librarian use them after it loses its last wound?

Connor McKane wrote:
5) Does a unit in cover then assaulting count as having assaulted through cover to a unit in the open?

A unit counts as having assaulting through cover if it had to take a difficult terrain test in the assault phase.

I'll try to answer!

1.1) If the Space Marines can see more then 50% of the Hive Tyrant then there is no cover save. My Gaunts did not cover 50% of mine when on the same level so I'd have to say no cover save.

1.2) If a squad can see part of the unit you can shoot at it. If 50% of them can not be seen, then there is a cover save.

1.3) If the Tyrant Guard are in the same squad, then why would it get a cover save? Last time I checked models in the same squad don't give each other cover saves...

1.4) This I do not know, I believe it depends on what you guys declared it. Shallow water is considered difficult terrain in the rule book. When I play a game we go ahead and declare that kind of stuff right away to make sure there are no issues.

2.) The rule book says to roll a D6 for each model that starts or ends, so I would assume that you would.(This one I'm not sure on.)

3.) What do you mean by "makes its rolls?" Again the rule book says to roll a D6 for each model that starts or ends in the terrain, so again, I'd assume yes.

4.) No clue here. I would assume no because it's dead...

5.) Last time we did this at my flgs we had to play as if I assaulted through cover.

I appreciate the responses, I do. But if you are not sure of a ruling, please dont say

"I think so, but I am not sure."

Not that I am ingrateful, but I can guess and assume myself.

Please refrain from answering if you don't know the specific ruling.

Thanks.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does the SM unit have clear LOS or does the squad of Termagaunts in front of the Hive Tyrant provide a cover save?

Monstrous Creatures require obscurement to claim a cover save, so Termagaunts wouldn't give a cover save to a solo HiveTyrant. A Hive Tyrant with attached Tyrant Guard would be able to claim a cover save, although as ever with cover and LoS it depends on positioning and true line of sight.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does a MC block LOS for a group of Termagaunts if they are shooting through the base? Is it true LOS,Magic Cylinder or Magic Cylinder lite? What is the official stance?

True line of sight. p16 of the BRB.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Could the Tyranid player assign the AP1 Lascannon hit to a Tyrant Guard behind the Hive Tyrant, then take a 4+ cover save because the SMs are said to now be firing through a MC base?

If the Tyrant Guard are attached to the Hive Tyrant, he can allocate the wound as he sees fit. If the Tyrant/Guard unit is eligible for a cover save, the wounded model will get the 4++ cover. The unit cannot provide cover to itself - p22.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does standing in a "River" style dangerous terrain feature confer a cover save (it was not agreed as a cover saving feature before the game) to a unit of Tyrant Guard and a Hive Tyrant if the MC and 1 Guard are in it?

If the unit is one Tyrant Guard and one Hive Tyrant, then yes - provided any normal Infantry-type model would get a cover save. If you wouldn't give a space marine a cover save from the river, for example, the Tyrant Guard wouldn't be able to get a save either. If the space marine could, the Tyrant Guard could, and that would put the majority of the Tyrant/Guard in cover.

Connor McKane wrote:
2) A unit of jump packers are in a building, and are leaving the cover of building, not moving 12 but moving 6, do they have to test for dangerous terrain?

They may move as normal infantry if they wish- p52.

Connor McKane wrote:
3) A unit moves into dangerous terrain, and makes it's rolls, does it have to roll to leave the dangerous terrain when it moves out of the terrain?

Dangereous terrain tests are made by models that have entered, moved through or left dangerous terrain - p14.

Connor McKane wrote:
4) Can a Librarian Dread still use psychic powers? If it is wrecked by being imobilized and having all its weapons destroyed.

Yes, from the Blood Angels FAQ.

Connor McKane wrote:
5) Does a unit in cover then assaulting count as having assaulted through cover to a unit in the open?

A unit that has to make a difficult or dangerous test while assaulting is counted as assaulitng through cover - p36.

Connor McKane wrote:
Q: Does standing in a "River" style dangerous terrain feature confer a cover save (it was not agreed as a cover saving feature before the game) to a unit of Tyrant Guard and a Hive Tyrant if the MC and 1 Guard are in it?

I would say no to this one, as it wasnt agreed to being a cover sabing feature before the game, just dangerous. however would most likely be a 5+ due to the BGB



Automatically Appended Next Post:
If the libby Dread is wrecked it can't use the psychic powers, however it is immobilized and weaponless it can

Listen to forkbanger.

+

jdjamesdean@mail.com wrote:If the libby Dread is wrecked it can't use the psychic powers, however it is immobilized and weaponless it can

Fork, the question was can the Librarian use psychic powers if it is destroyed. It cannot, I am pretty sure the BA FAQ does not allow destroyed - wrecked librarians to use powers....

1a. No cover save. MCs must actually have 50% or more of the model physically abscured to get a cover save. The Hive Tyrant can get around this if it is joined to a unit of Tyrant Guard, by having them be eligible for cover saves. Tyrant and 3 TG, 2 of them in cover, gets cover saves.
1b. True LOS, no more cylinders.
1c. Assuming the Tyrant is joined to the Tyrant Guard, no cover. If he's not joined to them, they cannot take the AP2 lascannon hit anyways. Models in the same unit do not confer a cover save to other models in the unit.
1d. If it wasn't declared to be cover, it ain't cover. Yes, I personally would have called it cover, but that's what the pre-game discussion of terrain is for.
2. No. While the rule is written poorly, they only take the Dangerous Terrain tests when entering/leaving terrain using the JPs.
3.Yes, each and every time a unit moves into, out of, or through dangerous terrain, it must test. It's even possible to take multiple DT tests in a single turn. Move into it, test, Run while in it, test, assault while in it, test. However, only one test per PHASE, regardless of how many pieces of DT you move into, through, or out of.
4. Yes. Covered in the FAQ.
5. Did they have to make a Difficult or Dangerous Terrain test to make the assault? If yes, then they take the penalties for assauling into/through cover. Doesn't matter if you move through cover when assaulting, what matters under 5th ed is if you take a test. Harlies assaulting into cover take no penalty, while units with Slow and Purposeful will have to test in the open and will be penalized.

don_mondo wrote:
4. Yes. Covered in the FAQ.

Not to beat a dead horse but...

Q: Can a Furioso Librarian still use a psychic shooting
attack if he has no weapons left?
A: Yes.

This is not the question he asked, he asked...

4) Can a Librarian Dread still use psychic powers? If it is wrecked by being imobilized and having all its weapons destroyed.

If you mean can a librarian that has all its weapons destroyed and is immobilized use psychic powers, then yes. If you mean can a librarian that suffered a destroyed result from multiple weapon destroyed/immobilized results then no.

calypso2ts wrote:
If you mean can a librarian that has all its weapons destroyed and is immobilized use psychic powers, then yes. If you mean can a librarian that suffered a destroyed result from multiple weapon destroyed/immobilized results then no.

Absolutely correct. I was obviously reading it as the first. Thanks for the clarification.

I was reading it that way too.

If it's Wrecked-wrecked, it can't do anything because it's destroyed.
If it's no-arms-no-legs-but-not-Wrecked-wrecked it can use it's psychic powers.

Not quite.

If it is wrecked, it doesn't matter how it got that way... no psy powers allowed.

If it has lost all its weapons, but is not wrecked, it can still use psy powers.
If it has lost all its weapons, and been immobilized, it can still use the psy powers.
If it has lost all weapons, and been immobilized, and gets another immob/weapdest result, then it is wrecked.... see first statement...no psy powers.

Thanks to all who contributed. It is appreciated as always.

@OP.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but I think you should really do some reading through some of the rules before posting large amounts of questions like this. I always attempt to at least do some research on my own before asking a single question, much less asking many questions like this.

I strongly recommend that you read through the INAT FAQ's as they attempt to clarify things like this.

I try and read the core rule book at least once a month. Before tournaments, I always try and read through the most popular codex's like space wolves, blood angels, SM codex, and orcs. Just to brush up.

Some of the questions you asked have also been vigorously debated and talked about to death on these forums. I would recommend searching them before posting questions as well.

Again, not a knock on you, there are no stupid questions, but if you have this many questions, it sounds like you need to do some reading. We were all there once.

gannam wrote: We were all there once.

To be fair, Connor has been there like, 5 times. I've played him against his Vanillarines, IG, Orks, Gray knights, and Blood Angels. He knows his stuff very well, and these questions read to me like ones that are posed by someone who has not only been there, but been there with several armies over several editions of the game.

That said, as I'm reading this, I'm eating a stick of butter, intermittently dipping it straight in a big bag of sugar, because its that good.

Does a Hive tyrant and Tyrant guard get a cover save from a devestator squad in elevated position, when this unit is behind a screen of gaunts? Yes.

Can a Librarian dread that is immobilized and all weapons destroyed (Same as being Destroyed-Wrecked) use its powers? Well no, the thing is wrecked. A better question would be "What happens when a Lib dread rolls double 6 for its psycic test, after being immobilized and all weapons destroyed?".

But I think you'll agree that the matters discussed here were handled mostly in your favor during our game, though incorrectly. That dread just wouldn't ever quit, my tyrant got no saves. Sanguinore and sons got a little shafted coming out of that building moving 6".
What is the best part of a Steak? The blood! Thats why you order it rare-medium rare, or you get a hamburger. Its why Tyranids prefer BA over SM.
Its also why I'll always enjoy playing with you a little more than anyone else at that store. You're one hell of a great guy, and our games are full of "flavor".

Doomthumbs wrote: A better question would be "What happens when a Lib dread rolls double 6 for its psycic test, after being immobilized and all weapons destroyed?".

Why is this even a question, you resolve a glancing hit against it as per the rules? Yes, that might destroy the dread on a 5 or 6...

Its a question because the dread is wrecked and it came up in our game, the answer is "you don't do anything".

But we couldn't find that rule is the real heart of this. You seem to know, help us?

Doomthumbs wrote:Its a question because the dread is wrecked and it came up in our game, the answer is "you don't do anything".

But we couldn't find that rule is the real heart of this. You seem to know, help us?

If the dreadnought was wrecked, it's terrain and couldn't use a psychic power because it's a wreck, so I'm going to assume that isn't what you meant to write.

The rule that converts a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized result on an immobilized weaponless vehicle to a Destroyed - Wrecked result is on page 61, the right hand column, conveniently located between "Damaged - Immobilized" and "Destroyed - Wrecked" descriptions.

A vehicle which has been immobilized and had all of its weapons blown off remains in play and is not yet wrecked. It has to get one more weapon destroyed or immobilized result applied to it in order to wreck it and turn it into scenery.

For example: It take three immobilized results to destroy a rhino:
* The first one: Immobilize the vehicle. The vehicle is not yet a wreck.
* The second one: Already immobilized, convert to Weapon Destroyed. Destroy the storm bolter. The vehicle is not yet a wreck.
* The third one: No weapons left, already immobilized, no weapons left, convert to Destroyed - Wrecked and wreck the vehicle. It is now a wreck.

Same principle with a dreadnought, except that there will be more weapons to blow off first. But if the psychic dreadnought is already immobilized, has no weapons remaining, attempts to use a psychic power, gets a perils of the warp, a Weapon Destroyed or Immobilized result comes up, and NOW it gets wrecked because there are no weapons left to destroy--no more psychic dreadnought, it's now terrain.

Oh, I know. And thats why I wrote it as I did. Its an absurdity that a wrecked vehicle does anything, and I'm well aware of how it got to that state. We just played it like that for that game because we didn't know at the time if a psycic power was a weapon. (It isn't)

But just in general, what happens when a Lib dread rolls a double 1 or 6? If it wasn't wrecked, that is. Thats what I wanted to know. Calypso seemed to know, but no page number.

Solkan, We've had differences in other threads, but I like the way you almost overpresent information. Thanks again for the abundant info.

Wrecked vehicles can't preform any actions. Librarian dreadnoughts are no different.

Haha... oh man.

Yes, I know. I know.

What about a non-wrecked Lib dread? What happens when it rolls a perils of the warp? Again, non-wrecked dread here.

It takes a glancing hit. This is on the Dreadnought page, in the same place where it describes how a Librarian Dreadnought works. How is this even a question?

Also, I don't think your group of players knows what Wrecked means. A vehicle with no weapons that is immobilized is NOT wrecked.

MasterSlowPoke wrote:
Also, I don't think your group of players knows what Wrecked means. A vehicle with no weapons that is immobilized is NOT wrecked.

MY group of players read that it is, if it takes another damaged result. Solkan covered this.
The other part is a legitimate question for anyone without a BA codex.
You're kinda excitable and rude, huh?

Not really, the answer is "get a BA codex" as that is the only codex (currently) where the rules for libby dreds are.

If you are using a libby dred without having the BA codex you are doing something wrong.