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This army has been done ok, but any suggetions on improvement would be great.

HQ:
Swarmlord (Paroxym, LE)
w/ 1 Tyrant Guard

Elites:
Hive Guard
Hive Guard
Yrmgl Genestealers x 5

Troops:
Warrior Brood (1 BS, 3 DeathSpitters)

Termagaunt Brood x 12

Hormaguant Brood (AG, TS) x 15

Genestealers x6
w/Broodlord +scything talons

Tervigon (Catalyst)

Heavy:
Trygon

Army Cost : 1497

I've always had a problem with vehicles but i've found that this army seems to do ok punching out tanks and such

(Still have yet to go against the armor 14 ones, but 13 and below seem to be ok for this army to deal with.)

Any Thoughts?

The list looks terrible almost a total mess. You have very little AT and all your units are small, badly selected and have little to no synergy or cohesion.

Swarmlord isn't viable at this points level. Too easy to kill without you being able to afford a delivery system.

Solo Hiveguard don't do much should always be fielded in units of 3.

Ymgarl stealers are woeful.

Warrior broods have little to no synergy with anything else and shooty warriors without a prime just seems a waste.

Termagants and Tervigon go well together but without toxin and Adrenal on the Tervigon again you've broken the good thing about the relationship. The Tervigons spawning is far too unreliable to make taking 1 viable. In some games it will be awesome in others it will poop out 3 Termagants turn 1 and do nothing for the rest of the game.

Hormagaunts are never going to be worth 10 points. Toxin can be worth it but with adrenal they are just far too expensive for not enough gain. T3 and a 6+Sv means 10 points is just too much.

Genestealers without toxin sacs fail. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS put toxin on your stealers!

1 Trygon is again total fail, against any half decent army it is dead the turn it pops up. You need at least 3 preferably more DSing monstrous creatures even at this point level to make it worth it. If you're going to go solo take the Mawloc, it's cheaper and does damage when it arrives rather than the turn after it arrives when it will be dead like the Trygon...

I'd start from scratch and think what you want the list to do as a whole. Then take units that acheive that goal and dump anything that doesn't add to that goal. Then re-post and I might be able to give you more help because as is this list does nothing well.

I wouldn't be so harsh. The list definitely could use a little tuning but Flingit is a bit opinionated on some things which I'll bring up.

Swarmlord is a LOT of points at this level. Ask yourself if he really is doing something a cheaper Tyrant couldn't do instead, and if not downgrade. That's a lot of points to beef up your numbers elsewhere.

I would agree single Hive Guard are unlikely to actually do anything efficient, but I wouldn't say you NEED to go to 3 man squads. 2 man puts out 4 BS4 S8 shots, same as, say, a Space Marine Devastator missile squad. Easily enough to cause something penetrating against a vehicle to stun or kill it.

Ymgarls are not woeful, but need a list designed to help them. Swarmlord helps as he can throw them Furious Charge or Preferred enemy when they merge from their area terrain, and then they can really go to town on an unsuspecting foe. Messing with your deployment helps as well as he has to avoid certain areas of the board where your stealers are likely to appear. Personally, if you are going to use them, squad size minimum of 7. For as powerful as they are, they still have a weak save and die very easy.

Warrior Brood isn't really helping here. They're not that great at shooting, you don't really need the synapse (Tyrant and Tervigon)... in essence, they're just using points that could be spent much better on other things.

If possible I would upgrade the Tervigon, although sometimes that's just not possible with the points you have available. If you want your Gants to be a legitimate threat, on their own, make sure to buy the Tervie upgrades.

Agree with Flingit, fully upgraded Gaunts are a massive expense. They can be nice outflanking in a Hive Commander list, but in most cases they're just better torrenting with poison (or if you keep the Swarmlord he can give them FC when they need it instead!)

Genestealers do NOT always need toxin sacs. Makes them deadly, but also very expensive. Would you prefer a larger squad, or a squad more tooled up? I'm typically a fan of more numbers. Also, the Broodlord is kind of expensive and is worth his cost a lot less often than you'd think.

Throw some Adrenal Glands on that Tygon. Trust me.

So there's some individual unit advice. As an army as a WHOLE (important for Tyranids) you aren't very synergized. You have fast elements, slow elements, supporty elements, big nasty elements... but target priority is pretty clear: Tervigon, Trygon, any little guys getting close, ignore the Swarmlord because he's slow.

Either take more MCs for Target saturation, or less, for the same reason. Take more antitank. More Hive Guard. I always take a minimum of 2x2 squads in any list I build.

Other than that... have at it with your personal preference and give us a list #2 to look at!

Pvt. Jet wrote:I wouldn't be so harsh. The list definitely could use a little tuning but Flingit is a bit opinionated on some things which I'll bring up.

Swarmlord is a LOT of points at this level. Ask yourself if he really is doing something a cheaper Tyrant couldn't do instead, and if not downgrade. That's a lot of points to beef up your numbers elsewhere.

Agreed

I would agree single Hive Guard are unlikely to actually do anything efficient, but I wouldn't say you NEED to go to 3 man squads. 2 man puts out 4 BS4 S8 shots, same as, say, a Space Marine Devastator missile squad. Easily enough to cause something penetrating against a vehicle to stun or kill it.

And no one takes devastators for a reason. But yes you can get away with squads of 2, I was a little over zealous there, I still beleive 3 is a much better idea. As SMs have melta and bucket loads of other AT, Nids don't.

Ymgarls are not woeful, but need a list designed to help them. Swarmlord helps as he can throw them Furious Charge or Preferred enemy when they merge from their area terrain, and then they can really go to town on an unsuspecting foe. Messing with your deployment helps as well as he has to avoid certain areas of the board where your stealers are likely to appear. Personally, if you are going to use them, squad size minimum of 7. For as powerful as they are, they still have a weak save and die very easy.

Too easy to deal with by flooding terrain and competing for slots with the best things in the codex (Zoes, HG and Venoms).

Warrior Brood isn't really helping here. They're not that great at shooting, you don't really need the synapse (Tyrant and Tervigon)... in essence, they're just using points that could be spent much better on other things.

Agreed

If possible I would upgrade the Tervigon, although sometimes that's just not possible with the points you have available. If you want your Gants to be a legitimate threat, on their own, make sure to buy the Tervie upgrades.

Agree with Flingit, fully upgraded Gaunts are a massive expense. They can be nice outflanking in a Hive Commander list, but in most cases they're just better torrenting with poison (or if you keep the Swarmlord he can give them FC when they need it instead!)

Agreed

Genestealers do NOT always need toxin sacs. Makes them deadly, but also very expensive. Would you prefer a larger squad, or a squad more tooled up? I'm typically a fan of more numbers. Also, the Broodlord is kind of expensive and is worth his cost a lot less often than you'd think.

It makes then 50% more deadly against their main target for a 21% spend. The most efficient spend in the codex. They should ALWAYS have toxin. BLs can be good as a defensive option by removing that PF from the squad you're attacking or used in harmony with the Doom of Malan'tai.

Throw some Adrenal Glands on that Tygon. Trust me.

Agreed

So there's some individual unit advice. As an army as a WHOLE (important for Tyranids) you aren't very synergized. You have fast elements, slow elements, supporty elements, big nasty elements... but target priority is pretty clear: Tervigon, Trygon, any little guys getting close, ignore the Swarmlord because he's slow.

Agreed

Is this the list you used at last weeks game night?

Swarmlord has all tyrant psychic powers btw.
I love the Swarmlord, he is amazing at any point game from 1750+
Ditch the Ymgarls and get some more Hive guard.
Ditch the adrenal glands and toxing sacs off Hormagaunts.
Ditch Stealers.
get a tonne of gaunts/hormagaunts/gargoyles
Give Tervigon AG and TS.
That's my thoughts in a nutshell.

This list has been doing fairly well from what iv seen from my table
Tho I dont know how last nights game went... looked like you were havin issues with those necrons before i left

fubujubu wrote:This list has been doing fairly well from what iv seen from my table
Tho I dont know how last nights game went... looked like you were havin issues with those necrons before i left

The game ended early due to time constraints - Minor Victory for the Necrons, though if the game had went all the way i believe NidPrime's Army would have made a lovely mess of things and got the victory!

Well after looking back at the book and taking some of the tips that have been posted.

I will luckly be able to field a stronger army after x-mas is over.

Tip and changes are still welcome (remembering that I only play what I currently have)

HQ:

Hive Tyrant - TL Devourers 185
Tyrant Guard - 60

Elites:

Hive Guard x 2 - 100
Hive Guard x 2 - 100
Venomthrope - 55

Troops:

Termagaunt Brood x 13 - 65
Termagaunt Brood x 13 - 65
Hormagaunt Brood x 15 - 90
Tervigon - Catalyst, AG, TS - 195
Genestealer Brood x 5- TS - 85

Fast Attack:

Gargoyles x 10 - AG, TS - 80

Heavy:

Trygon - AG - 210
Trygon - AG - 210

Total - 1500

I swaped the Swarmlord out for a cheaper Hive Tyrant, took off the AG and TS from the Hormagaunts, added a few more Hive Guards and added AG/TS onto the Tervi.
I also took out my warriors to add more termagaunts and gargoyles into the army.

Thoughts?

A 5 man genestealer brood does nothing. It would lose iif assaulted by scouts from a LSS... Likewise 15 Hormagaunts isn't enough. Drop the Termagant units down to 10 man, and dump either the stealers or the Hormagaunts and get a decent sized squad of on or the other...

The Tervigon seems to me like a waste of points. Spawning is very unreliable-I'd ditch it and spend the points on either more Termagaunts or a brood of Warriors, which are much better than people give them credit for. Plus, you need all the Synapse you can get.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Oh, and by the way, the Swarmlord has all 4 psychic powers. You don't need to choose which ones you want.

Squigsquasher wrote:The Tervigon seems to me like a waste of points. Spawning is very unreliable-I'd ditch it and spend the points on either more Termagaunts or a brood of Warriors, which are much better than people give them credit for. Plus, you need all the Synapse you can get.

The sheer number of strength 8 weapons that I see in general make me shy away from warriors personally, but they CAN be a great shock troop. That being said, I rarely if ever take Tervigons for their spawning ability. You take them for FNP and for having a 6/6/6 Troop MC.