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The Codex doesn't quite make it clear...Do they still prevent your Hive Tyrant being targetted independently, do they block Line of Sight (which seems rather odd, considering that, awesome though they are, the models are rather short) or do they do something else?

They stop your HT from being targetted, as although he JOINS as an IC he is NOT an IC and therefore cannot be targetted in either shooting OR close combat.

They block line of sight as normal for models, however as they are part of the same unit as the HT cannot provide cover for him.

Nothing allows models to target MCs in a unit in 5e, so yes, they allow the Tyrant's unit to claim "normal" saves.

They allow wound allocation, can modefy the unit's WS, and do block LoS (like everything else).

The LoS issue does not actually help the Tyrant, though, as they are (generally) part of its unit.

Well, technically nothing allows a model to target a MC in a unit ...

However you are very allowed to target a MC that is an IC in a unit, the tyrant joined with guard is not an IC however, so is unable to be targeted.

More importantly if he WAS an IC you could also target him in shooting. Making the TG pretty much useless.

nosferatu1001 wrote:More importantly if he WAS an IC you could also target him in shooting. Making the TG pretty much useless.

What? What lets you target an attached IC in the shooting phase?

An IC who is also a MC can still be picked out in shooting. It's on pg 49 BRB as I recall. Doesn't matter in the case of the tyrant (& swarmlord) because he's never an IC.

Arschbombe wrote:An IC who is also a MC can still be picked out in shooting. It's on pg 49 BRB as I recall. Doesn't matter in the case of the tyrant (& swarmlord) because he's never an IC.

Ah, I didn't realize there was an exception for MCs. My bad.

Arschbombe wrote:An IC who is also a MC can still be picked out in shooting. It's on pg 49 BRB as I recall. Doesn't matter in the case of the tyrant (& swarmlord) because he's never an IC.

It is funny to note, however that the rule does NOT seem to allow an IC joined to MCs to be picked out--nor does it allow an MC to be picked out of a unit containing non-MC models unless the MC is an IC as well.

Unless I am missing something.

Its only a rule for MC ICs, so it wouldnt say anythinng about non-IC MCs - well, you'd hope!

Oddly I cant think of a single MC IC that can actualy join units....

The other thing it does (although some will contest it, and it has been argued more than once here) is allow the HT to get a cover save, by sticking the guard somewhere where they have cover. The save gets added to the whole unit

It can be contest, to absolutely no avail as the rules are 100% clear on this matter - if 1 or 2 tyrant guard (of 1 or 2) have cover, then the whole unit has cover

nosferatu1001 wrote:Its only a rule for MC ICs, so it wouldnt say anythinng about non-IC MCs - well, you'd hope!

Oddly I cant think of a single MC IC that can actualy join units....

I regularly argue that it can be done with the Swarmlord.

nosferatu1001 wrote:It can be contest, to absolutely no avail as the rules are 100% clear on this matter - if 1 or 2 tyrant guard (of 1 or 2) have cover, then the whole unit has cover

Yeah, but some people simply don't get it....you've seen the threads.

Actually, I have never seen those threads. Sometimes people ask the question, but when it is explained, that is it. Never seen it debated.

There was one that went on for 5-6 pages. Basicly 4-5 people trying to explain it to one guy who just...would...not...listen.

Thank you. I have the answer I needed.

Maelstrom808 wrote:There was one that went on for 5-6 pages. Basicly 4-5 people trying to explain it to one guy who just...would...not...listen.

Every now and then you will run into those of far below normal intelligence, they just need it repeated 20-30 times before it sinks into their thick skulls.

This clears things up for me some. I was having this debate with a freind or two and it seems like the rule book is clear on this for once.
Restating for clarity: Swarmlord and Hive tyrant can join a unit of Tyrant Guard and once Part of the unit they obey units in partial cover rules. If 50% or more of the unit gets a cover save then that save is conferred to the unit as a whole CORRECT?

Yes, that is correct.

It takes a few steps (MC->Vehicle->Squadron-> Normal unit rules) but you get there in the end.

Just remember the HT is NOT an IC: this means you reduce your KP by one (as it is not a retinue) and he CANNOT leave the unit.