Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've been on the internet and I've seen lots of people cast conversions of GW's stuff (and if they get ticked off enough at FW just molding what few good things they receive from them). What I'm wondering is if these things are legal in the U.S.? I've contacted GW's customer support with my question and got a link to their legal jibberish. I did see a hint that It might be legal to cast conversions in some places but I don't know where. I also cant find the U.S. IP laws anywhere on the internet either.

You can't cast their models legally. Not even for personal use if I am not mistaken.

My advice to you is that if you think there is a chance that something is wrong or illegal, then it probably is. You obviously had the feeling, or you wouldn't have called them, or posted it here.

The folks that do make things that can be used as a "counts as" model are very careful to not copy anything that GW does. If you do something stupid like add a melta gun part to a bolter and try to package that as your own model, GW will crush you like an ant if they find out.

From all accounts, they are extremely aggressive about it. I don't blame them.

If you do it in your basement for your own use, no-one will notice, know, or care. If you do it and start selling recasts, expect to be brought down hard by GW Legal.

Casting their stuff strait up is illegal. Selling it is even more illegal. If you make alterations, then its legal.

Now, ask yourself why would you cast things for yourself, only to turn and tell GW that you did it? If your a caster using it for yourself then dont worry about it. If your casting their things for financial gain, then your a sad sod

Thanks for the replies. Fyi gannam i'm not that stupid . Haven't casted any conversions i'm thinking of .....yet.

In the United States, it would not be legal to recast a miniature still protected by copyright for personal use, whether you are selling it or not. There are fair use exclusions that would allow for copying the works without infringement, of which none would apply to this situation - you're not a library and you're not using them for educational purposes. If you made alterations, then it's considered a derivative work and is still not legal.

As Ketara said, "If you do it in your basement for your own use, no-one will notice, know, or care."

Countdown till rampant flaming by the IPquisition causes a threadlock has begun...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gannam wrote:From all accounts, they are extremely aggressive about it. I don't blame them.

They have no choice. In the United States, if you do not protect your marks and copyrights, then you can lose them, which is why you see such strange cases being brought and then settled; it's litigation theater. Some people have found it's a good alternate means of revenue, but those are outside the norm.

Well obviously people like Chapterhouse make conversion materials closely resembling GW parts that can only really be used with GW kits and they are on the right side of the law. They don't directly recast GW stuff, they make things that look very much like GW stuff. GW would let them know quick enough if they were infringing. Recasting actual figures is illegal though, even with minor modifications.

But what you do in private is your own business, legal or not. No one will know or be able to prove responsibility unless you walk into a GW store and confess to being the one recasting stuff.

There's a world of difference between casting up a few bolters for yourself at home and recasting whole miniatures and attempting to sell them, even though both are technically illegal.

Chapterhouse and others are waling a thin line, but they seem to be doing well.

Basically, here's the major points these kinds of threads seem to revolve around so we can hopefully get past them quicker:

1. Most of us aren't IP lawyers. Any that are probably can't/won't talk specifics, but I think there might be someone who has some actual experience with this kind of thing on Dakka.

2. IP laws very widely from country to country.

3. The actual law as it is written differs a bit from what is worth a corporation actively pursuing. (I.E. GW is unlikely to really go after a home recaster that doesn't resell stuff.)

Oh, God.
Can a Mod lock this thread, now?
What Balance has said is the bottom line of every thread like this that comes up, and he's managed to get in here and say it before the "IP Recasting Wars" have begun! : )

Eric

Ha, love the irony of someone posting in a thread asking for it to be closed, MM<

I've often wondered if people get confused by the legality of stealing from a large corporation when they would not be confused stealing from a single person.

If you reproduce their stuff without permission, you have stolen the time, money, and/or talent they put into developing a product.

Big H(hasbro) runs into this a lot with guys reproducing guns for their figures and what not. Hasbro has in the past been willing to overlook casters making products that they no longer have the molds for, but its really a merciful gesture and they have in some cases reversed very quickly, in particular with a caster begins making molds of existing items.

I assume GW is just as protective of its melta guns and what not.

narceron wrote:I've often wondered if people get confused by the legality of stealing from a large corporation when they would not be confused stealing from a single person.

You mean, confused like you are now, by conflating copyright infringement with theft? Don't be too sad, a lot of people make this mistake. It's forgivable, because some large corporations, such as the RIAA, intentionally mislead the general public into thinking copyright infringement = stealing.

It's not, though. Ref: Dowling vs United states (findlaw) (wikipedia)

With the casting thing, if you green stuff a head to fit on an imperial guard, you can cast it. if you cast a single imperial guard head you like then its illegal.

Ouze wrote:

narceron wrote:I've often wondered if people get confused by the legality of stealing from a large corporation when they would not be confused stealing from a single person.

You mean, confused like you are now, by conflating copyright infringement with theft? Don't be too sad, a lot of people make this mistake. It's forgivable, because some large corporations, such as the RIAA, intentionally mislead the general public into thinking copyright infringement = stealing.

It's not, though. Ref: Dowling vs United states (findlaw) (wikipedia)

And it was on this day, children, the 24th of November in the Year of Our Lord 2010, that the opening salvos were fired in the revisitation of the great "IP Recasting Wars."

(emphasis mine)

B-b-but you don't understand! Someone was wrong on the internet.

Ouze wrote:B-b-but you don't understand! Someone was wrong on the internet.

I had to

Ketara hit the nail on the head. I'm sure there are people out there casting entire armies (for their own use).

For anyone reading this, getting past the obvious illegality, GW also frowns heavily on not-for-profit trading. If anyone is interested.

It's highly illegal (In terms of making copies of pieces of plastic ).

I do see merit in copying certain pieces for personal use (For instance, I need raptor jetpacks, because they're so unbalanced), but you're better off staying out of trouble with GW. Ignorance of the law is no excuse to break it...Or something like that

it ain't legal... period...

B-b-but you don't understand! Someone was wrong on the internet.
-Ouze Jong Il, November 2010

Just to add, artwork is also copyrighted, so copying some GW art and making your own model, even if it's all your own work would also be an IP violation.

Maybe someone who like, knows a friend of a cousin of a lawyer or something could step in and say whether there is precedent for a company like GW being able to demonstrate damages in situations where someone blatantly casts lots of stuff for personal use.

Ketara wrote:If you do it in your basement for your own use, no-one will notice, know, or care. If you do it and start selling recasts, expect to be brought down hard by GW Legal.

Need to also be careful if purchasing cast rips from Ebay. Known a few guys that placed an order before GW came down on the seller, which resulted in folks losing their money.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Samus_aran115 wrote:For instance, I need raptor jetpacks, because they're so unbalanced

You looking for jetpacks or wingpacks? If its the latter PM me.