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Okay, so in a 3v3 game i played over the weekend (TK, VC, Skaven vs Empire, stunties, and Lizardmen), one of my friends chose the Lore of Life for his Slaan, and cast the spell (cant remember the name, sorry, and i don't own the BRB) that increases the effects of the other spells in the lore and lets him disregard Miscasts on a D6 roll of 2+. During his attempt to cast the spell, he rolled two 6's and got a miscast. I called shennanigans on this, telling him that the spell wasn't in effect at the time of the miscast and, as such, he couldn't claim its benefits.

A couple turns later, without re-rolling for the spell, he tried to claim the benefits of the spell. I didn't question this at the time, as i'm the TK player and I can't bring the BRB lores without a Wizard's Hat, as well as the fact that i assumed it was a RIP spell.

Now, my two questions about this spell are this::

1. If you miscast while casting this spell, do you gain the 2+ 'save' against the miscast?
2. Since the spell is an augment spell, does it last for more than one turn?

My thoughts are that 1. You do not gain the 'save' granted by the spell, as the miscast occurred before the spell was active, and that 2. it does not last for more than a single turn, as it is an augment spell.

Any information on this situation would be greatly appreciated.

1. You resolve the spell first, then the effect of the miscast. So yes, throne of vines protects itself from a miscast. They even address it in the FAQ:

Q: If a Wizard casts Throne of Vines with Irresistible Force do
they get to ignore the miscast on a 2+ as the miscast occurs after the
spell is cast? (Reference)
A: Yes.

2. Throne of Vines is a remains in play. He does not need to re-cast each turn. The fact that it is an augment does not define the duration of the spell. For more, take a look at the rules associated for Remains In Play. As a Tomb Kings player, you may well have some power dice to spare, and should be dropping it on your turn to force him to recast.

RZ

As Zeke said, ToV protects itself from a miscast.

Furthermore, if you have ToV out, and cast an augment, the augment will benefit from ToV even if you subsequently dispel the ToV. Thats part of the new FAQ too.

This means he can cast ToV (which remains in play). Then he casts Flesh to Stone, which would add +4 to his toughness because ToV was in play at the time of casting.

You then dispell ToV, but his Flesh to Stone still remains at the +4 to toughness and does not revert to +2 to toughness.

Both Zeke and Lehnsherr are right about this.

I didn't know about that additional part though about when ToV gets dispelled. Should come in handy.

As above. the rulebook states you resolve the effect of a spell before any miscast. In addition it is remains in play.

Remains in play-spells has by the way become better in 8th, since you may maintain the spell while casting other spells with the same wizard.

You get a lot more power dice than you did before though, with armies that has no wizards. Which makes it easier to remove remains in play spells.

Seriously? Man, that makes the Lore of Life seriously messed up then....

But i remember Augment and Remains in Play being under two seperate headings, and I don't remember reading the duation of Throne of Vines...

Ugh, either way, thanks ladies and gentlemen for the assisstance. Its appreciated.

Throne is 100% RIP. There are only 2 RIP lore of life spells, and presumably it is structured that way on purpose.

It does mena that a Slaan with cupped hands has 2 2+ chances to avoid a miscast....

nosferatu1001 wrote:It does mena that a Slaan with cupped hands has 2 2+ chances to avoid a miscast....

All the more reason for us WoC players to use third eye of tzeentch, get within 24" of his unit but not within 24" of the slann (to avoid becalming) and kill him with his own dwellers below spell

This is right on the throne of vines. I didn't realize before that dispelling it doesn't remove the augment, but they clarified it in the FAQ.

Chances of you getting both of those off in a competent Slaan players hands is fairly minimal however

I quite like just throwing the fat frogs unit forward. If you go into CC its suddenly T8 with regen....

RiTides wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:It does mena that a Slaan with cupped hands has 2 2+ chances to avoid a miscast....

All the more reason for us WoC players to use third eye of tzeentch, get within 24" of his unit but not within 24" of the slann (to avoid becalming) and kill him with his own dwellers below spell

Good luck with that against a light slaan. Also good luck against those WS, Init 10 and/or ASF temple guards (with banner of flame)

Light slaan is a terrible choice. Temple guard are expensive and relatively fragile, you have to protect them with toughness buffs.

Here's a question. We've established that if you cast a throne-powered spell and then throne goes away, it remains powered up.

Does it work in reverse? if the spell was originally cast when not on a throne, and sooner or later you climb up on one, do you still get the additional buff?

Nope. The benefits of the spell are based off the time of casting. If you had no ToV when you cast Flesh to Stone, you do not retroactively get the bonus when you cast ToV.

Light is not that bad a choice either. They would be protecting themselves in CC with 10 WS, 10 I and ASF. Light also has spells to protect you from war machine fire. It has just as much potential as lore of life. I would hardly call TG relatively fragile. They have a 3+ save against shooting, and a 4+ save otherwise. Toss in the T 4 value, and they are on the higher end of tough infantry. Dwarves and WoC might have things that are tougher, but TG are up there.

In fact, the ruling on Third Eye would also make me lean more towards Light than Life. The number of WoC players out there in a given tourney is high. Everyone uses Third eye, and although Nos says a competent player could avoid that mishap, if the competent player did not get the first turn of the game, they could easily lose their Slann. Disc sorc flies within 24" of the TG but outside range of the Slann. Tosses as many dice as he can at Dwellers, and poof Slann gone, game over. They might miscast, lose their Sorc who knows, but the tradeoff would be something most generals would accept.

A light Slann is actually a very good choice. I have played with that combination often and it has always done well for me. The ability to be WS and I 10 while also making the units arounds you at a -1 to hit is just brutal. Anything that isn't WS 5 hits on 6's. ASF is just icing on the cake. These combos make saurus and TG brutal.

Yup and light has no spell with wich the enemy can wreck me, true i might be devoid of uberspells for my own use but getting to charge 8+2D6" and then hit like a meth addict is awesome, it also eliminates the two weaknesses of saurus Init and WS.

Lizzies benifit greatly from WS and I10. they are already T4 with a decent armor save and neither of these matter when they chop you up before you get to attack them.

Not to mention what happens if the enemy fails to stop me from combining lightspeed with timewarp. It turns the S4 saurus into a unitshredder of epic proportions.
Light also has the joyous abilty to make stegs and/or krox charge 10+2D6" (stupid stat cap of 10), its pretty funny.